WAC Beta v0.1 - Downloads, comments, suggestions

[Mormacil]

That bug is (also) caused by the Spellbook DLC from Bethesda

[Alcryt]

Ahh, thats probably what it is then. I forgot dlc could be buggy too, i only recently started playing Oblivion again so its been a while.

[hatsutoli]

Okay, I confess. This is only my SECOND post since I join this project as a mod tester due to so many troubles in my life at the real world.

I do have some issues about v0.05. It just caused lots of REALLY SERIOUS LAG(both sounds and FPS) and i can sure that it happened to be better in v0.04. The truth is that I can't even walk around in the wild without any stuttering sounds and views, and even black screens that force me to restart the computer or else I can do nothing. I had tried WAC.esp off and only play with WAC Overhaul.esp activated, at least I thought that might work(with directly edit Leveled lists, not thousands of new spawn points), but not, it still lagged to death. The quiet feet plugin also not seems to be very helpful to solve the problem.

The Next step I tried is to turn both WAC.esp and WAC Overhaul.esp off, and played with other WAC Plugins and see if it can work fine on my computer, but sadly, it failed, too. Guards and some travellers have missing meshes of their weapons and armors, which I thought was caused by Realswords and new armors meshes paths missing. I'm runnig out of ideas now. I really love this project and do wish to see it work best in the future. I will see what I can do if I have new thoughts about how to fix this.

I have Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E8400 @ 3.00GHz,
DDR2 800 4GB RAM,
and Nvidia Geforce 8800GT with 600MHZ 512MB 1.8GHZ.

I never experienced any lag before v0.05 installed, even with BBC 4.3.2 full installed, and Newest Unique Landscapes Full series, and FCOM 0.99.

Sorry for my bad english because it's not my native language. I do hope these informations will help.

[Haruko]

Hey there guys ,
1. Like i said i started fresh with a lvl 1 char, to my great amusement i noticed the emperor has a beard...
Not sure if i like him that way but hey, its in the eye of the beholder. but will there be a option/esp to turn beards
off?

I'd actually like that option, don't know about anyone else, but when I went to make a character, even with a female gender, there were a lot of issues of sorting through chars to get one without a beard... also couldn't change the hair on most races.

[washington]

It's a bit quiet these days? Although, whenever I check someone's online. I haven't had time to play these days, maybe tomorrow I get chance to play. If so, I'll surely report something.

I have a question.. Where is that camp with butcher?

[Waalx]

1. Like i said i started fresh with a lvl 1 char, to my great amusement i noticed the emperor has a beard...
Not sure if i like him that way but hey, its in the eye of the beholder. but will there be a option/esp to turn beards
off?

I could do a version of TCOS where the new races of WAC are not used. This however need me to create several versions of the same thing, something I hate to do at this point as it's not final and many more changes will be made. Same thing with the non-mature mod, when I start working again on the originals I have to redo the patches from scratch each times...

When that happen, it's going to be in a more final version of WAC, not soon.

2. After my first few encounters with bandits (they look awesome btw) i found these weapons armor on them:
Fine Angular Broadkris - worth 450 gold
Mongolian Recurve Leather - worth 1625 gold
Seaward Cutlass - worth 875 gold
Lion Claw Saber - worth 1450 gold

a bit overprized in my opinion, will those prizes be changed? i mean if this keeps up youll be rich in no time flat.
I myself wouldnt play a mod if items will gain me tose prizes

I'm am in the process of revamping RealSwords at this very moment. I pushed aside RS Gladiator and I'm now working on WAC v0.05c. v0.05c is going to fix a great deal of what has been reported so far since Aplha release. I'm still going through the list of bugs, although I fixed a lot of stuff already..

RealSwords is now going to work on a new system I made-up two days ago. It's based on part on RealSwords Nord that introduced 3 types of weapons for each RS weapons. New, Worn, and Old, as opposed to FCOM Fine, Normal, Crude, Flawed, that in my honest opinion is a big mumbo-jumbo.

A crude weapon in my eyes is a weapon that DOESN'T look the exact same as a FINE weapon, in definition they are worlds apart. A flawed weapon and a crude weapon, that mean what exactly? The guy who came-up with those names.. well ...good for him! Not for me.

With all those category of FCOM it can go up to five versions of each weapons! I don't want that, certainly not if they all look the same on top of this. Plus it's a hell to manage all that. 3 versions is already a hell to manage.

In WAC, it's 3 versions. New, Worn, Old. Keeping it at three will allow me to eventually create visual differences for each types as I made in RS Nord. 5 versions with visual differences? Forget it, I'm already crazy to think of doing it for 3.


I'm not doing the worn blade effect on the models now, as this is a really big job and I will only tackle it once I'm onto RealSwords for the v3, but the base of the work in the CS about this will be done already. V3 will bring update to each weapon models, as well as worn blades effects and dents.

v2, what I work on now, is my own re-balance of RealSwords, and a few fixes.

You will not find good weapons, unless you go and buy it, or find it by chance in loot or on a boss. Only Worn and Old versions will be around, (or on good NPC). RealSwords merchants will be the only ones that can sell you a weapon in New state, that in itself IS a good thing as it give them a reason to exist. It also solve my problem with the weapon prices. Merchant will sell you the weapons at an inflated price (as they do in real life;) ), but as the New versions will not be on bandits and such, a player will not get crazy prices anymore as he will not (or very rarely) find a New version in the world. So having the real things at high prices is still possible for me to do with this system, although the prices of New weapons have been lowered a lot too compared to the prices of RS weapons in the races previews.

New weapons are considerably better than if they have been Worn or are Old.

Here's how it work...

RealSwords weapons stats

Value:
New 100% price
Worn 25% of the NEW price tag
Old 10% of the NEW price tag

Now, RealSwords weapons are expensive only when you buy them New, otherwise, their cost is quite low. In real life, if you buy a car and take it out of the dealers shop, the value drop 50% instantly.. well if you buy a weapon, it's value drop 75%, as the use of a weapon is one of destruction and severe usage.

Health:
Enchanting:

New 100%
Worn 50%
Old 25%

A worn weapon is going to have half the resistance of a New weapon, and since it's been in use already, placing an enchantment on it is less 'pure', so it weaken the effect compared to if you enchant a New one. And Old ones are pretty bad at 25%. They will break easily since they are old, and adding an enchantment on them will give you a pretty weak magical weapon.


Damage:

New 100%
Worn 75%
Old 50%

Damage is calculated on the premise that if you hit somebody with something, it's going to have an effect regardless of what you use. So an Old weapon can still hit at 50% efficiency. A Worn loose 25% of cutting/bashing power.

Each percentage are calculated individually for each weapons of RealSwords. DAMN IT! THAT'S LONG!

I'm also adding Old versions (textures) to everything, as it's quick for me to make old textures compared to editing the models and dent the blades...

Some stuff get a special treatment however... Like the Redguards arrows:



Redguards arrows will be more numerous than they were in the preview. I may probably also drop the 'Mongol' word entirely in Redguard archery nomenclature, as it's a bit off for Cyrodiil.

p.s. All quivers types are now working as they should

3. Also i found them wearing golden plate greaves, wouldnt it be nicer/better to find those later on, a few lvl's up?
Or maybe renaming them? Like brass plate greaves or so, they are bandits afterall, i'd get drunk on all the gold

There was two items with the names 'golden' instead of 'bronze'. It's fixed.

If you want actual travelling merchants there's a mod called Tamriel Travellers which adds those but they won't sell WAC stuff of course.

WAC will get his own version of travelling people once I get to it. I already made donkeys for them. There are 3 merchants made in WAC masters but I have yet to put them to work and make more of them.

Okay, I confess. This is only my SECOND post since I join this project as a mod tester ...

this is still better than 90% of people who downloaded the mod but never left a single comment about it...

I do have some issues about v0.05. It just caused lots of REALLY SERIOUS LAG(both sounds and FPS) and i can sure that it happened to be better in v0.04.

Not sure I understand why. other than it's normal it will lag a bit more since you added 1.2 gigabytes of data to your game...? You seems to have a decent machine, is you hard drive defragmented by the way? or what are you running in the background of your computer while playing can have great effects to how it will respond.

The truth is that I can't even walk around in the wild without any stuttering sounds and views, and even black screens that force me to restart the computer or else I can do nothing. I had tried WAC.esp off and only play with WAC Overhaul.esp activated, at least I thought that might work(with directly edit Leveled lists, not thousands of new spawn points), but not, it still lagged to death. The quiet feet plugin also not seems to be very helpful to solve the problem.

That's very extreme. and as you're the only one who'd reported this so far, I'll take it it's a problem in your machine's set-up, not in WAC.

Guards and some travellers have missing meshes of their weapons and armors, which I thought was caused by Realswords and new armors meshes paths missing.

Please explain me what is missing, as other than a known bug with the traveling people that sometimes won't equip a shirt, everything else should appear normally. Weapons are all there as well so missing weapons meshes?..no idea. Give me example of what is missing, otherwise I won't know what the problem is.

I'd actually like that option, don't know about anyone else, but when I went to make a character, even with a female gender, there were a lot of issues of sorting through chars to get one without a beard... also couldn't change the hair on most races.

I already answered that one in the read-me. And I answered you on that same question the 16th. This is the third strike.

Haruko wrote:
meant to post this earlier, but I noticed with the beards, you basicly added more races, and I can't seem to change hairstyles... not sure if that's directly related or not.


Sorry but I answered that one before I released the v0.05 mod Razz

From the Read Me...
- I made a good amount of new races to accommodate the beard styles. If you want to play a character using one of those bearded races (even a bearded gal!) you will need a mod that fix custom races like Custom Race Fix - http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1815. I think the Unnoficial Patch take care of this as well. Unfortunately, when I created the races I made the mistake to delete all hairs and eyes for those race. Work fine for NPC as it unlock everything there is for everybody, for players however it unlock nothing. So you will have weird eyes, or stuff until I fix the master and add hairstyles back to the races.
_________________

v0.05c fix the races hairs and eyes selections, although the races will still be there. The races are there for the beards of NPC not for players. I can't make them unplayable as I would then have to edit every bits of dialogues. It's not an issue for me to sort through them. It will take 2 minutes longer to make a choice of race for a player maybe?

Come-on lad... click that mouse like a man!

[StarX]

Good to hear about balancing out the weapons stats and prices. Sounds like a logical system to me.

I have an idea about putting the new venoms (from the armless) to good use, but I'll have to work it out a bit more. So expect to hear something from me about that soon.

BTW: that damn dog in the Dividing Line (where the Argonian RS are sold) is still attacking the player, so I had to put it out of it's missery.

[Waalx]

Good to hear about balancing out the weapons stats and prices. Sounds like a logical system to me.

I have an idea about putting the new venoms (from the armless) to good use, but I'll have to work it out a bit more. So expect to hear something from me about that soon.

BTW: that damn dog in the Dividing Line (where the Argonian RS are sold) is still attacking the player, so I had to put it out of it's missery.

Hey Mr.. good to see you.

WAIT! The Armless venom has a plan already! They are all linked to poisons. And should actually act as barter items.

The poisoners shops will take the small and ineffective armless venom bottles, and trade them in exchange of real Poisons that are already in the WAC master.

What remain to be done about this is the barter system ( a bit like the nirnroot of vanilla) and creating the multiple shops of the poisoners and the poisoners themselves. One is already made.. Saragar I think in WAC master. Poisoners are all bretons, of a special breed.

I wonder what you are working on, but what I just said has been the plan for the Armless poisons since day one.

good to hear about the dividing Line dog as I'm on a RS revamp now

[StarX]

Good to hear about balancing out the weapons stats and prices. Sounds like a logical system to me.

I have an idea about putting the new venoms (from the armless) to good use, but I'll have to work it out a bit more. So expect to hear something from me about that soon.

BTW: that damn dog in the Dividing Line (where the Argonian RS are sold) is still attacking the player, so I had to put it out of it's missery.

Hey Mr.. good to see you.

WAIT! The Armless venom has a plan already! They are all linked to poisons. And should actually act as barter items.

The poisoners shops will take the small and ineffective armless venom bottles, and trade them in exchange of real Poisons that are already in the WAC master.

What remain to be done about this is the barter system ( a bit like the nirnroot of vanilla) and creating the multiple shops of the poisoners and the poisoners themselves. One is already made.. Saragar I think in WAC master. Poisoners are all bretons, of a special breed.

I wonder what you are working on, but what I just said has been the plan for the Armless poisons since day one.

good to hear about the dividing Line dog as I'm on a RS revamp now

Hola Alex!

I wasn't working on it yet, just playing around with some system ideas. Now that I have opened the WAC esm I see what you mean by looking at them various poisons. Let me try to put them to good use and work out a balanced system for it.

It also might be an idea to add similar barter poisons to the spiders of WAC.

As soon as I have something substantial I'll let you know, or send you the esp right away so you can try it for yourself.

On a side note: I'm using WAC with Unique Landscapes and I found no real strange issues yet in the areas I've been through, they complement eachother very well!

[Waalx]

I wasn't working on it yet,

cool! I would hate to had you work on something that is supposed to go somewhere else. There's not a lot of things in WAC for which I have no real plan, as it's something I always think about while making the items/creature/armors.

just playing around with some system ideas. Now that I have opened the WAC esm I see what you mean by looking at them various poisons. Let me try to put them to good use and work out a balanced system for it.

The poisons and venom bottles share a same color. Color dictate what venom you need to distill a poison. The goal here is to have the poisoners ask the player for venom, a certain herb ingredients, and gold (not as much expensive as Nirnroot, the gold price here is more like a formality...and is a fixed amount that will need to be scripted.)

different poisons potency can also be made later. But the goal here is to have the first poisons very potent compared to player made poisons.

The 'Poison Grimorum' will be a book that will indicate how a poison is made. Although the book will also say that the recipes are missing key elements so it protect the poisoner business...... The Poison Grimorum was made by them (the poisoners), and they will give a copy of it to the player if asked the right question. It will contain a list of ingredient the player need to collect if he want a poison (s) to be made for him.

Otherwise, the poisoners will maintain a small inventory of poisons, all depending on where and who they are. Those ready-made poisons will cost a lot more to buy than if the player brought the ingredients to be distilled.

Once the player seal a deal with the poisoners, he will gain some infamy. With each transactions.

The player will also be added to a special faction when buying or getting ingredients for them. This will be explained in the Poison Grimorum, as it will be said that one that goes against the Poisoners will die by Poison. An envoy of those Poisoners. So one shouldn't risk looting or pickpocketing poisoners. They would retaliate if so.
And very, very, very, very, ververyvery, VERY badly since they deal substances of death. You never see the envoy, unless he was sent for you. By then you're not likely to see anything else after. You would be hit with Liquid Iocane, so unless you're the Pirate Robert, you die... it's like that.

It also might be an idea to add similar barter poisons to the spiders of WAC.

yes that could be an idea for later.. In fact I only need to create variation on the venom bottles, as the venom only have a skull sticker.

On a side note: I'm using WAC with Unique Landscapes and I found no real strange issues yet in the areas I've been through, they complement eachother very well!

Some people still report some stuff due to WAC and Unique Landscape, I guess if WAC load last it take over so the goblin camps, and cells like that overwrite UL changes. There's still the crucifixion ground that may cause some problems.

[StarX]

cool! I would hate to had you work on something that is supposed to go somewhere else. There's not a lot of things in WAC for which I have no real plan, as it's something I always think about while making the items/creature/armors.

The poisons and venom bottles share a same color. Color dictate what venom you need to distill a poison. The goal here is to have the poisoners ask the player for venom, a certain herb ingredients, and gold (not as much expensive as Nirnroot, the gold price here is more like a formality...and is a fixed amount that will need to be scripted.)

different poisons potency can also be made later. But the goal here is to have the first poisons very potent compared to player made poisons.

The 'Poison Grimorum' will be a book that will indicate how a poison is made. Although the book will also say that the recipes are missing key elements so it protect the poisoner business...... The Poison Grimorum was made by them (the poisoners), and they will give a copy of it to the player if asked the right question. It will contain a list of ingredient the player need to collect if he want a poison (s) to be made for him.

Otherwise, the poisoners will maintain a small inventory of poisons, all depending on where and who they are. Those ready-made poisons will cost a lot more to buy than if the player brought the ingredients to be distilled.

Once the player seal a deal with the poisoners, he will gain some infamy. With each transactions.

The player will also be added to a special faction when buying or getting ingredients for them. This will be explained in the Poison Grimorum, as it will be said that one that goes against the Poisoners will die by Poison. An envoy of those Poisoners. So one shouldn't risk looting or pickpocketing poisoners. They would retaliate if so.
And very, very, very, very, ververyvery, VERY badly since they deal substances of death. You never see the envoy, unless he was sent for you. By then you're not likely to see anything else after. You would be hit with Liquid Iocane, so unless you're the Pirate Robert, you die... it's like that.

This is something I can work with. All bartering could be done through dialogue with several options. That way, you can deal with a poisoner at any given location and have fixed prices for the poisons. I'm not sure about the infamy increase though, as I can imagine some people want to use poison as a "good" player against the forces of evil. I really don't like the idea of having an infamy of 100 after buying 100 poisons in secret!

Don't remember if this was already discussed or mentioned somewhere, but we could use a similar system for the woodwitches to create benefitial potions. Just a thought.

[Waalx]

I'm not sure about the infamy increase though, as I can imagine some people want to use poison as a "good" player against the forces of evil. I really don't like the idea of having an infamy of 100 after buying 100 poisons in secret!

If we counter this by having a mean to gain fame back maybe not a bad thing... as you suggest

Don't remember if this was already discussed or mentioned somewhere, but we could use a similar system for the woodwitches to create benefitial potions. Just a thought.

The wood witches are evil, so not them, but the Druids would fit the bill perfectly in that respect... they could hold secrets to healing potions of great potency. And give you good points instead of infamy.

However they would not be cheap, but they would not send somebody after you if you attack their order. They could decide not to do business with you anymore though.

[Alcryt]

BTW: that damn dog in the Dividing Line (where the Argonian RS are sold) is still attacking the player, so I had to put it out of it's missery.

Haha that dog attacked me too, i thought it was just a random occurence that happened to me.

One thing i have noticed since using this mod is that anyone outside of a city has a very good chance of getting killed. For example if i visit a random shrine i will occasionally find a dead shrine worshipper. Doesnt really bother me much, as long as my buddy Mazoga doesnt get killed anyway.


* I could always just summon anyone that dies though i guess.

[StarX]

I'm not sure about the infamy increase though, as I can imagine some people want to use poison as a "good" player against the forces of evil. I really don't like the idea of having an infamy of 100 after buying 100 poisons in secret!

If we counter this by having a mean to gain fame back maybe not a bad thing... as you suggest

Don't remember if this was already discussed or mentioned somewhere, but we could use a similar system for the woodwitches to create benefitial potions. Just a thought.

The wood witches are evil, so not them, but the Druids would fit the bill perfectly in that respect... they could hold secrets to healing potions of great potency. And give you good points instead of infamy.

However they would not be cheap, but they would not send somebody after you if you attack their order. They could decide not to do business with you anymore though.

Oh yes, forgot all about the druids! Good idea!

I've started creating a spreadsheet to have a better insight on the various effects/prices and such. Also to help decide what other ingredients to use besides the venom.

[Waalx]

One thing i have noticed since using this mod is that anyone outside of a city has a very good chance of getting killed. For example if i visit a random shrine i will occasionally find a dead shrine worshipper. Doesnt really bother me much, as long as my buddy Mazoga doesnt get killed anyway.

in the next version there's far less of beasties on the roads..other than non-aggressive ones. That should help this problem.

Apex predator will also be moved away and deep in the forest so this will change how NPC encounter creatures a lot I think, since NPC travels by roads mostly.

I'm going to see if I could do something about shrine people, like maybe predator aren't interested in religious people, not enough blood in their brain...or too much.

[Alcryt]

One thing i have noticed since using this mod is that anyone outside of a city has a very good chance of getting killed. For example if i visit a random shrine i will occasionally find a dead shrine worshipper. Doesnt really bother me much, as long as my buddy Mazoga doesnt get killed anyway.

in the next version there's far less of beasties on the roads..other than non-aggressive ones. That should help this problem.

Apex predator will also be moved away and deep in the forest so this will change how NPC encounter creatures a lot I think, since NPC travels by roads mostly.

I'm going to see if I could do something about shrine people, like maybe predator aren't interested in religious people, not enough blood in their brain...or too much.

Or perhaps the shrines have some sort of magical creature deterrent to protect its worshippers.

Another thing i could mention is that I quite like the white lions around wayshrines, makes them nice little safespots. But for some reason they like attacking my horse when im not on it and anyone elses horse that is left near them. Perhaps they just like the taste of horse.

[Sethsryt]

I wonder, if you are going to make it compatible/semi-compatible with body mods, can you change the foot texture on the hanged persons? I think that is one of the few real incompatibilities.
Because now it displays the whole body texture. :p

[Mephisto30]

Thx for working on those prices Waalx, seems quite right how you put it

can't wait to try 0.05c

[megazogg]

On a side note: I'm using WAC with Unique Landscapes and I found no real strange issues yet in the areas I've been through, they complement eachother very well!

Some people still report some stuff due to WAC and Unique Landscape, I guess if WAC load last it take over so the goblin camps, and cells like that overwrite UL changes. There's still the crucifixion ground that may cause some problems.

Truth be told, there are a lot of land tearing, missing river segments, waterfalls from nowhere, hovering rocks and trees because of the conflict between WAC and UL. Taking in account the size of Cyrodiil landmass it's rather funny that you, Waalx and guys from UL choose to use almost the same spots for editing. Right now I am on work, so I can't give you more detailed report, but I still can say that WAC conflicts with UL Imperial City Island (Hill with crucified folks), Cloudtop Mountain (Bandit Camp) and Bravil Barrowfields (Bandit Camp). Haven't yet visited other UL locations, so there might be more. Also WAC may conflict with Better Cities.

[Katalia]

On a side note: I'm using WAC with Unique Landscapes and I found no real strange issues yet in the areas I've been through, they complement eachother very well!

Some people still report some stuff due to WAC and Unique Landscape, I guess if WAC load last it take over so the goblin camps, and cells like that overwrite UL changes. There's still the crucifixion ground that may cause some problems.

Truth be told, there are a lot of land tearing, missing river segments, waterfalls from nowhere, hovering rocks and trees because of the conflict between WAC and UL. Taking in account the size of Cyrodiil landmass it's rather funny that you, Waalx and guys from UL choose to use almost the same spots for editing. Right now I am on work, so I can't give you more detailed report, but I still can say that WAC conflicts with UL Imperial City Island (Hill with crucified folks), Cloudtop Mountain (Bandit Camp) and Bravil Barrowfields (Bandit Camp). Haven't yet visited other UL locations, so there might be more. Also WAC may conflict with Better Cities.

It's possible it does conflict with Better Cities, I'm using Better Cities alongside WAC, and I know that there's a land tear outside of the fighter's guild in Cheydinhal... Not sure if it's due to WAC... nor am I sure if there are any in the other towns...

But, possible...



Haven't noticed any issues in the UL areas, at least that I've noticed though...