WAC Beta v0.1 - Downloads, comments, suggestions

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MasterAub
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Dazu wrote:
StarX wrote: My french is pretty lousy, so I'm not sure what that is all about (guess he's asking persmission for something), but aren't the meshes and textures from the linked mods ripped from other games? The Kylin came from Lineage 2 and was removed from Tesnexus because it had illegal content. The other creatures look suspicious as well....
He's asking for permission to translate WAC. The links are just examples of what they have done so far. I'm French myself and although the French community exists, the good (best?) stuff comes in general from Germany, the official BGS boards and here of course :D
Well the goods comes from everywhere... :P
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StarX
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Dazu wrote: He's asking for permission to translate WAC. The links are just examples of what they have done so far. I'm French myself and although the French community exists, the good (best?) stuff comes in general from Germany, the official BGS boards and here of course :D
Ah, I see. Thanks for the translation, Dazu! I guess you are the same Dazu from the BGS forums? :hello:

My favorite French modder has to be Sinblood. He has a such a great eye for detail and his designs are very tastefull. Even the more revealing clothing/armor.

Anyway, back on topic!

Alex, about the latest version of NifSkope acting wonky with collision: try disabling "Auto Sanitize before Save". I had a shopsign that kept falling on the floor, but when I created the NIF with that function turned off it worked as before.
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StarX wrote: Ah, I see. Thanks for the translation, Dazu! I guess you are the same Dazu from the BGS forums? :hello:
Yep the "one and only" :)
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Mormacil
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Oh Sinblood's stuff is awesome :) Though very differently from Waalx his stuff :P
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Shikamaru
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Shikamaru wrote:
Waalx wrote: Possible that the collision have the same bug the arrows had. Appear that newer Nifskope versions screw the collisions when saving some types of objects.. I'm forced to work with 0.95 because of that.

Yes CorePC has some simular problems with arrowheads in the MMM Crafting plugin , I know nothing of modeling so I just thought I'd let you know .
I'm not sure at this point if making patches for FCOM is the best idea as WAC is still in Alpha... WHat are you working on exactly ? I would suggest you wait till the next version at least. I'm still changing stuff and renaming things...
Right now I'm just forging some resources that'll be usefull later , i.e. Just basic balancing of stats .i.e. Wieght , Value Health . I don't mind getting started on it now , even if I have to update late , starting now will just make me that much more familiar with WAC in the fcom enviroment .

More detailed work will only come later anyhow , I.e. Creating a scale to spread out the creatues with that of the other mods as well as some minor nerfing maybe. Some optional plugins to work with the LLists . But that's ways off for sure . With all the other projects and the learning curve for me , It'll likely be post FCOM 1.0 and as you know 995 is still yet to be released officailly .

I'm toatly open to your input, ( more then likely soliciting it at times :deal: ) , I'm excited about WAC and FCOM complimenting each other. It's going to be great :D
the RealSwords material is very different now, I deleted lots of stuff, and made many new entry, new lists.
I'll half to ask dev about what his plans would be with the FCOM current realswords . Right now FCOM has RealSWords ( Atleast some of them and I think I remeber dev mentionning he's working of the NOrd REalswords ( not sure ) . Do you have any reservations about the swords being kept seperate from the other stuff , on the FCOM side of things that is ? Some thing like this could me worked out

FCOM_Realswords.esp
FCOM_WAC.esp
FCOM_WAC&RealSwords.esp

To maintain customization and unity


LEt me know what you think , and I'll cross post this to the disscusion thread at the fcom alpha site
Um, I dont know , I got nothing
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MasterAub
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So where are we on the next WAC release?

You know the arena overhaul, the RealSwords Imperial etc...etc...

Alex, I know I sound "pushy" but "qui aime bien châtie bien" :-o
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e39042
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I'm getting a new computer on the 12th of August so I will probably be installing Oblivion again.
Looking forward to seeing the improvements you've made since the last version I tried and hopefully the new version everyone is waiting for will be finished by then.

I went over the entire thread yesterday, and I have to say it's looking better and better with each update.

In the meantime, does anyone have any mods they can recommend that compliment this one well?
I've been looking on tesnexus, but that place has become terribly disorganised!
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Pfff going to a KISS concert while we wait :P
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reallybigjohnson
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since your adding armors to the game are you going to include racial bonuses for those as well?
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Waalx
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I'm not home since a while, so I'm not working on the mod until I get back... Probably Monday. Release of new material should start into next week.

I was answering some post the other day and I lost my replies somehow..Didn't get the time to re-write it till now.
papill6n wrote:Bonjour Waalx.
Tu as fait un travail totalement hallucinant !!! :shock: Merci au noms de tous. :-)
Et bien que ce ne soit qu'une version Alpha, elle est tout de même très stable chapeau ^^.

Lorsque tu sortiras une bêta, autoriseras-tu le site "La Confrérie des Traducteurs" à traduire ton mod ?
Ils ont déjà une ton autorisation pour tes mods d'épée "Realswords".
Oui plus tard je vais donner la permission pour traduire WAC, en autant que ça demeure une traduction.

Pour ce qui est da la traduction de RealSwords en français,..., c'est comme pour FCOM. Le travail a été fait sur ce que je considère des previews, et en fait de traduction, ils n'on rien vu encore de l'ampleur du travail de traduction qu'il va falloir réaliser pour traduire la version finale. Traduire des noms d'épée c'est un petit rien à côté de tout l'histoire qui s'y rapporte. Pense a traduire l'équivalent d'un bon bouquin de 300 pages et +. Donc RealSwords est loin d'avoir été traduit, du moins, selon mon point de vue :)
Peut-être c'est créature t'intéresseront ? :
Intéressant, mais WAC se constitue seulement de mon travail à moi. Je n'utilise pas de ressources externes dans WAC.

Right now I'm just forging some resources that'll be usefull later , i.e. Just basic balancing of stats .i.e. Wieght , Value Health . I don't mind getting started on it now , even if I have to update late , starting now will just make me that much more familiar with WAC in the fcom enviroment .

More detailed work will only come later anyhow , I.e. Creating a scale to spread out the creatues with that of the other mods as well as some minor nerfing maybe. Some optional plugins to work with the LLists . But that's ways off for sure . With all the other projects and the learning curve for me , It'll likely be post FCOM 1.0 and as you know 995 is still yet to be released officailly .

I'm toatly open to your input, ( more then likely soliciting it at times ) , I'm excited about WAC and FCOM complimenting each other. It's going to be great Very Happy
My position on that remain the same. WAC is in Alpha, if you work on patching an alpha version you are asking for trouble, and you will get troubles. If I remove something, your version will crash. If I change the name of a bunch of models, you will hunt down what I changed? Because I don't keep a detailed list of changes I do. I'm still building this, so I have no mind on keeping records of every small changes, as there are LOTS of 'em changes. A lot more than what people using WAC since last year may be aware of...
I'll half to ask dev about what his plans would be with the FCOM current realswords .
I told dev_akm back then that RealSwords races mods are preview of what I plan with it, if he went ahead it was his decision.. Honest? I don't care what he plan, it's not his project.

RealSwords is, and always was to be The Chronicles of Steel what I was talking of as the 12Th RealSwords.. It is now started in WAC. Whatever else, well. it's not RealSwords. I'm still the author of that thing as far as I know...it does sound weird to me to be asked what I think of the plan of another person on a project I am the author of.

I need to concentrate on the original. I don't even give enough time to my own project at the moment. Honestly. Beside all that, dev is and was working on previews. Previews that will change greatly in the final version. When TCOS will be done it will have so much more than what's in the race mods now, that everybody will see what I meant with "RealSwords races mods are previews". He should have no plan about FCOM RealSwords. When the final of RealSwords will come out, with the quest and the stories it will be a different beast, with a meaning I would like not to be lost into the simplified thing it is now.

As it is now, most people have no clue about the work that have been done behind the scene by Elhazan, and Vocha, and me and others. It will give all that stuff a whole new meaning.

How can he plan something based on an unfinished work I have no idea. What will he do when I release the complete thing? Redo all the work? Or ignore the original?
Last time I wrote him about an idea about RealSwords and how it should work, he told me he prefer his implementation in FCOM. That mean my ideas about how my own project should work isn't important. With that in mind I have no interest to feel concerned about RealSwords in FCOM anymore.

dev_akm haven't logged on the forum here since June 2007! How about that for the only person I permitted to use all of it in one go? I would say he doesn't know squat about the actual RealSwords plan, the one that should matter.
It's my feeling now that he took RealSwords in FCOM without any care about what my plans are or like I said, anything I might want to change in how my own project should work is now to be 'approved' and most probably will be discarded in FCOM. Great, huh?

Try to find me an Elvin saber in FCOM...? It's an Elven Saber now, huh? It goes with a story, but now, most folks play RealSwords in FCOM with Elven Saber instead of their actual real names. When or IF it's played with the original I'm still doing, those people will think I made a typo with Elvin. It's infuriating when I actually asked him to keep the weapons names as they are. That was a condition, of which none was respected by the way. I asked three things, nada. And I asked for the references to be kept in the download, not a word of any RealSwords read me are left as far as I know.

All I wanna say about this is:

Give me back my RealSwords. It's mine, my preciousss.

I tried (hard) to stay polite on this issue so I'm sorry if that sound harsh to anybody who read this.
StarX wrote:Alex, about the latest version of NifSkope acting wonky with collision: try disabling "Auto Sanitize before Save". I had a shopsign that kept falling on the floor, but when I created the NIF with that function turned off it worked as before.
Cool! thanks for the tip! I will see if it work when I get back next week.
MasterAub wrote: So where are we on the next WAC release?

You know the arena overhaul, the RealSwords Imperial etc...etc...

Alex, I know I sound "pushy" but "qui aime bien châtie bien"

Arena overhaul aka RS - Gladiator, is going to be separate from WAC for a time.

RealSwords Imperial is the last race I will do. Next will be Dunmer. Then Altmer. Altmer weaponry will be most interesting. Probably all of them will be magical. Altmer RealSwords will be the rarest of all I made so far, since few Altmer are fighters anyway.
Imperial players will already get something to chew on with the Arena weapons that are almost all Imperial made (although in fact, an elf did them! :) ).

When I get back next week (Monday) you should be getting something new not long after :)

When I left I was on looking to release a pre-alpha of RS - Gladiator. A release mostly based on betting in the Arena, but Gladiators you fight yourself in the arena are all updated already. I didn't do the player rainments yet though. And lots of stuff I want in are not there yet. But just betting in the Arena now is an activity that went from 'very boring' to a real fun thing to behold. I loose my time betting over and over just to see the outcome of each matches.


At last a view of a part of it for you. That is Flavius, the Arena blacksmith. What's on display around him are Arena weapons that unlock as you progress in rank.
For those who didn't catch this when I said it earlier..Every Arena weapons are based on one (1) unique texture! (Except the Katanas, bow, arrows, and of course the armors.)

Image
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e39042 wrote:and hopefully the new version everyone is waiting for will be finished by then.
yep. the next version shall come out before that. Hopefully by the end of next week in fact.
Mormacil wrote:Pfff going to a KISS concert while we wait
Jealous! :P
reallybigjohnson wrote:since your adding armors to the game are you going to include racial bonuses for those as well?
At the begining of RealSwords I had such a plan. Now with WAC it's becoming less about races and more about factions (if we speak of armors). The next RealSwords, Dunmer, will include my version of the Morag Tong armor though.
I find it much more interesting visually to create lots of bandits and marauders, and mages stuff, than doing one armor for each race. I can say that yeah, I want to do some and that would be the truth, however, my need is elsewhere before I concentrate on racial armor.
I became aware while working on WAC that RealSwords itself can be repetitive and that with at least 10 weapons for each races. It would be much more repetitive with racial armors as there's no way I will do more than one or two armors per races..

What I'm going to do in WAC later is to add variation on many vanilla clothes, and at the same time I'll start making fat and slim people too.

anyway. that remain to be seen. :)
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The arena looks awesome Waalx. And to be honest I would love a faction based armor system more then anything racial. Sure it;s cool to collect the armors of all the races but I rather see variety among my factions. Real TG look with cloaks I hope but who knows what for great things you'll do :) Have fun this weekend!
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Shikamaru
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Ok , I was trying to be polite . Very sorry ,sir . I shall not bother you no more . The only reason I brought up the real swords was because , ( having no idea of what you just said ) noticed it in the wac.esm , and since my focus was only the creatures wanted to know if this could be unified ( i.e. the elvin sword ) So there wouldnt be duplicates.

I have nothing but respect for your work , I understand you have your vision , my dream is to have wac present in fcom . Obviously I understand that like T.I.E and such , not everything can be brought over . I'm willing to spend the weeks and months need to make this happen , I simply wanted to pay my respects . Good luck in WAC .

Sorry to have annoyed you
Um, I dont know , I got nothing
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Alex...

This looks awesome...

In advance, thank you...
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Waalx wrote: ...snip...I went to Red Dog camp, but I didn't had the black screen there. It's unusual as for exterior cells there are no Fog Near Distance, it become grayed-out. So that one I don't know what to do...snip...
Hello. Just joined up, but forgive me if the grey screens have been resolved.

I don't have a link to the thread's post on the BSF forums, so forgive me for that as well. Yet, I seem to remember reading that the grey screens are supposedly caused from the camera slipping between a 'crack' when two meshes aren't lined up properly. i.e. where two pieces of a hallway meet. I've only ever heard of this happening in interiors, though.
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Shikamaru wrote:Ok , I was trying to be polite . Very sorry ,sir . I shall not bother you no more .
well..that's a bit dramatic. What did I say to insult YOU exactly? I was talking of RealSwords, and how I perceive my situation now.

I would be a fool not taking into account the number of players who play FCOM RealSwords since a while now. And my concern is exactly about that. Nothing else. If I want the project to become something and then on the other hand the biggest number of player used them in a different way, do I have a problem? In my opinion yes, something of a problem.
The only reason I brought up the real swords was because , ( having no idea of what you just said ) noticed it in the wac.esm , and since my focus was only the creatures wanted to know if this could be unified ( i.e. the elvin sword ) So there wouldnt be duplicates.

Well the WAC version is supposed to be the unified version I guess. Although WAC.esm only hold the weapon data. If a player want to run RealSwords FCOM and use WAC, he just need to not use WAC - TCOS.esp, and he would never see my version of the weapons, but the (older) FCOM version.

Understand how I see and need the weapons in WAC is different than what dev_akm want or need them in FCOM. So it come to, you use my version, or you use FCOM version, I think.
An important difference is that FCOM doesn't only use RealSwords for weapons, it use a number of other mods that add more weapons. WAC use RealSwords gears exclusively.... RealSwords are the only weapons added to the game by WAC. Running RealSwords the FCOM way, I would have 90% vanilla weapons in WAC. I can't use the FCOM way in WAC, so I implemented them differently.

The best way to eliminate duplicate is to use one or the other I'm affraid. My implementation and FCOM implementation can't co-exist.

Another reason is that in FCOM, there are up to four types of the same weapon. In WAC it's never more than three types. New, Worn, Old. So if you try to mix WAC RealSwords and FCOM RealSwords this could get up to 7 types of weapons or something, and not balanced the same way at all..

RealSwords at the moment is version 1.0 everywhere except in my computer in Montreal, where the version 2.0 is still taking shape..and is mostly about balance (and also a big revamp of all arrows types).

Then, will come version 3.0 with final models, the stories, the quest.
I have nothing but respect for your work , I understand you have your vision , my dream is to have wac present in fcom . Obviously I understand that like T.I.E and such , not everything can be brought over .
Changing the world of Oblivion we invariably find ourselves changing the NPCs, the races, or other things that can basically only be changed by one mod. That has been the problem with RealSwords weapon placement for example, in the racial mods. In WAC - TCOS I slowly take over the NPC with more than just weapons.

From the start when I took the decision to make something big that became WAC, I asked the people in charge of other overhauls for input, for help, and most importantly to try to find a way to ensure that WAC could be something that could work alongside other stuff with as minimal conflicts as possible. I was open to that and asked for it. It didn't happen.
But even then...for some thing it just can't happen. WAC is becoming too big and start to touch too much elements. If two things change the same item, it's one or the other. I think many problems can be solved with Wrye Bash, but I'm not familiar with that at all.

Since working on WAC I run only a very small numbers of mods with it, mostly small mods that modify things I know I won't touch with WAC. I'm not using other overhauls as I prefer to see everything vanilla until or if I decide to change it in WAC. Otherwise I wouldn't see much stuff to change if running an overhauls that already change most things. Working on vanilla is essential for me to be able to see what could be done.

I'm willing to spend the weeks and months need to make this happen , I simply wanted to pay my respects .

If I say that you shouldn't work on a port to FCOM at the moment it's because I know it's best to wait until WAC can be more advanced. Not because I don't want you to do it. It's illogical in my mind to work to port an Alpha version to something else already.
The base of WAC and in fact almost all of it can be played with FCOM already. Only TCOS and Overspawn can't work I think.

If you are willing to spend lots of time working on a mod, and in this case on WAC, why don't you help me with WAC instead? That is what I need. I need to work WAC. I need to balance it more, although still keeping the content mostly unleveled. Lots is still needed
Good luck in WAC .
Sorry to have annoyed you
you didn't annoy me at all.

I seems to have annoyed you though. :sorry:
Zinni wrote:Hello. Just joined up, but forgive me if the grey screens have been resolved.

I don't have a link to the thread's post on the BSF forums, so forgive me for that as well. Yet, I seem to remember reading that the grey screens are supposedly caused from the camera slipping between a 'crack' when two meshes aren't lined up properly. i.e. where two pieces of a hallway meet. I've only ever heard of this happening in interiors, though.
The background of interior cells (infinite space) is grey. If there's a crack as you say, it does that show the background color.

The problem is of a Black screen, where the whole screen become black, and you have to either rotate the camera or move to another point in space to restore the view.
I found a way to solve that for interiors cells, I still have no idea of what cause it in exteriors though. I also can't replicate that bug myself.
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Btw Waalx you're aware it's since a few weeks possible to make new skills like a weaponskill for spears or axes or even laserguns.
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Shikamaru
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Ok , I've done these two files , the names of the files indicates what's been done in it . If you find these to your liking let me know , otherwise it'll be fine and I'll just wait for the officail release of WAC

http://www.4shared.com/file/118484510/7 ... lance.html

http://www.4shared.com/file/118630751/a ... Rebal.html
Um, I dont know , I got nothing
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I'm back home now.

:-)


thanks for this, I will look at it tonight and let you know. actually just by the name of the files I can tell it's probably better than what I did, and yes was needed in WAC before FCOM...exactly what I was talking about!

If we (you) can balance WAC well enough by itself before anything else, you will not need to do much much when you will make an FCOM port. ;)
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Mormacil wrote:Btw Waalx you're aware it's since a few weeks possible to make new skills like a weaponskill for spears or axes or even laserguns.
Maybe later I can look at this for the Arena.

At the moment that's not really in the scope of WAC itself to change this I think, at least so far. I mostly touch things that are for NPC and creatures, and props.
A rebalance of the game itself isn't in my capacity actually. And it would also bore me to death to only change variables and stats that doesn't belong to something new I added. I'd rather work on adding more new stuff instead, and I'll tell you a secret. That's what I'll do :)

While I like to create the stuff...balancing is a chore for me, that I do sparingly and usually only for what I changed. I will usually make it harder, stronger or weaker. The next RealSwords version in WAC will be based on a balance 'chore' I made for them... finally! :)
The way WAC is made now isn't balanced, but somehow create an unleveled world already in it's present form like what you have now... most thing may work fine (with an unleveled world in mind), while others decidedly don't yet. Having unleveled stuff is still what is important to me more than balance at first.

Then come people who know the job, and that job actually appeal to them. Shikamaru is already started on this as we can see so you probably can expect stuff to change, but how much or to what extent? That remain to be seen.
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I wasn't suggesting you overhaul the weaponskill-system but merely add something like a polearmskill for all your spears, halberds, tridents etc. Shame to put such gorgeous things among the blunt weaponskill. Anyway it's something for down the road I guess.

Your stuff is awesome and hope you had a good trip back.
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