WAC Beta v0.1 - Downloads, comments, suggestions

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Mormacil
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August 18th, 2008

Hmm if you throw it all in a convenient OMODready format... ^_^

edit:
Okay since I've been running WAC, started a new game and switched out some mods (my last set-up was fighter and I wanted to try a mage-like character. Well I got one big issue so far in an hour playing...

I crash every so often minutes. OB just freezes and I get an error-report from Windows.

edit2:
Mild clipping in "extreme pose"
Image

edit3:
Black Leather Greaves make your legs really thin (female version).
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Waalx
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August 18th, 2008

trollf wrote:My 2c... ;]

While BSA files make things easier to install and manage, the download file is much larger than that with textures/meshes packed with 7zip.
I used BSA for simple plugins, like Actors In Charge or some house mods. But for my Armamentarium Series I decided not to use BSA, mainly for three reasons:
- file download size with BSA inside would be larger about 100MB,
- all stuff in Armamentarium is the modders resource as well, so it's easier to use already extracted meshes by other people,
- this mod has no esp file with the same name as BSA file, and while the mod has no installer then BSA file needs to be registered "by hand" in oblivion.ini and that complicates installation process for casual mod user.
you have WAC.esp, and WAC.BSA. So yes you do have a same nomenclature that will kick the bsa in action, even in the CS I tried. It's not registered in my .ini here and it works. Works like the Knights of the Nines plug is working. I told no one to register the bsa in their .ini for that same reason, and so far look like it's running. I'd be curious to see the number here that thought ..'hey I need to register the bsa?'. I worked to prevent that question :P

I didn't knew that a bsa would be heavier with 7zip.. I will test. Thanks for pointing that out!

WAC is near 600mb uncompressed, so far 7zip usually give me around 1/3 ratio, so for 600mb I get a 182mb archive. I think it's not bad.. BSA isn't compressed, so the files are the same size they would be in folders.

Without a BSA, having the files like they should be in the folders make a big mess. It won't be friendly for anyone, even modders. It's not friendly for me and I have only that installed now. The way to save video memory reusing the same normal map. Reusing the same skeleton & animation over and over, some folders are just crammed with stuff. I won't advice modders to extract the files in their data folder either.

I did that to make things clean. Without that, yeah it's going to be easier for a modder to see the files without extracting the bsa. But I'm not doing this for modders, but for players that want a simple care-free install. Modders that need the stuff, they will know how to get them. And if they don't, Crom say me, the Hell with them!




Mormacil, you can install it, it is friendly. Well..there's... bunnies?

I tried my best to weight them so they don't clip. my objective was with the bare arms..they shouldn't. But extreme pose mostly make many things clip. what can I do. A great deal of meshes from the game clip as well. either this Or I do bracers that look way too large. bandit armor instead won't clip.
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Mormacil
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August 18th, 2008

What? install what? :P I only seem to crash outdoors. Been inside Vilverin now and no issues. I'll test some more.
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Waalx
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August 18th, 2008

did you defrag your drive after install? seriously.

some times I was working for a week on something without defrag I was in game and full stutter always lot worse than it should. defrag. all was better.

if WAC.bsa is in a couple hundreds fragments on your drive..it,s not helping.

other it could be the feet problem. I will finish the fix right now. So we can see about this.

thanks!
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Mormacil
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August 18th, 2008

I must admit my FPS dropped roughly 5-10FPS with Waalx running... Of course I defragged, my C drive as well.

bug(s):
Wide Boots and Wide Boots Black have no value.

edit:
Just an idea while playing. I use Darker Dungeons which makes dungeons really really dark :P So my idea: Flarearrows, arrows that emit light where they hit ^^
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vorkosigan
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August 18th, 2008

Just started playing yesterday, and I think I've found a replacement for MMM. It was a joy to be wandering in the Jeralls and find reindeer.

I did find that the demons with the armor in the Demonic Tower were attacking each other, and the smaller demons. Also, none of my arrows hit the 'boss' demon until I aimed very low. I think it's reading as a normal-sized npc instead of the taller size.

Otherwise, wonderful stuff so far! I'll try to put in some more playing time tonight. :)
baker99
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August 18th, 2008

So far it looks good :)

Some minor things I found are

The creatures like zebras, gamesbok etc. all move very fast, although this makes sense for reality's sake it doesn't let you admire them, I can barely see them on my lcd they move so fast.

The hedgehog, shouldn't it have spines?

The chief goblin tents seem a bit small for a creature that big, he wouldn't be able to sit down and relax.

UL problems, the only one I found was the watchtowers you add, they float in the air, but I'm sure the UL team can make a patch.

If you are making a Smurf village what about Asterix too, he and Obelix would look cool ;).

Great work, I'll test some more tonight.
jhondidfool
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August 18th, 2008

I disabled them all for precaution, I'll be testing which do and which don't interfere :) so I can play with as much UL as possible, I'll tell you my results :)
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Krimsyn Kane
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August 18th, 2008

Mormacil wrote:Just an idea while playing. I use Darker Dungeons which makes dungeons really really dark :P So my idea: Flarearrows, arrows that emit light where they hit ^^
I think that's a cool idea, I was thinking about something similar, that flaming xivali katana, any way to make it emit light like a torch?
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August 19th, 2008

Waalx wrote: the UL incompatibility hopefully the UL team will get a fix out, but you say you had to disable all of them? that's a lot, I'm only dropping spawn points in WAC mostly (except for the goblin camps where I do a bit of landscaping around). Normally, the spawns should appear. That, is unless UL change the terrain height EVERYWHERE. Yet that's out of my range. I'm going to have the mod run OK by itself before I start to worry about other mods.
I am running with all the ULs at present and all I've noticed thus far is some water-height issues. Assuming the cell function in Bash gets fixed to work without throwing up errors that's not a big issue in the long run (and can often be fixed just with load order).

Waalx wrote: hehe..Yeah well there's a lot of loot to create actually, and some I didn't do yet. I did a good number of it already, but several is still missing. Good ideas there, I take notes.

I need to do Sabertooths, different antlers types I didn't yet do as loot, as well as a couple of others.. The only ones that are real easy to do are like when it's a skin and I just switch the texture and move the uv to fit the world model. It's not hard to do new loot, but if you know a 3D software, otherwise if it's the first time for that , it will not be easy to do at first you'll be lost in a sea of unknowingness. So you tell me. Are you '3D experienced'? :ninja:
No, it's one of those things I've yet to learn how to do, and it's one of the skills I am kind of expecting to be poor at, but making this stuff seems like a much simpler task than making a whole new creature or other large objects. As I said: I can try, but no guarantees!

Vac
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August 19th, 2008

Hey Guys ! I work a lot so i can't report often... hehe...

So ... Let's se what i've got ! Bugs : Nothing major ;) only two wrong texture paths ... One for the nails on gibbet (all of them) and one for the thing that is used to cook rats in the goblins camps, the stick they are stuck on... poor rats :( ...
Pics : http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee32 ... -58-87.jpg

For the camps, they look very nice ! Although the goblins archers should have a longer sight... I was about 10 feet for the tower and they didn't saw me yet ... :s Goblins looks visually awesome and their weapons are pretty nice also.. And i was wondering if the goblins had random health ?? Cuz i took a Longshot in 3 or 4 hits ... and an other (at the same conditions) in like 15 hits ... In Gnoll's Meet camp , i can't enter the chieftain tent ... is it done ?? or it's a door that has no reference ? Hmmm.... i don't get a bad framerate in the camps... i got a drop when the fire is loading but after that it's just like every place that has a bunch of npc for me ! :) (Yayz for Streamline !) By the way, keep your luck stat up guys ... When you've been hurt in luck, the Red bull stunted scamps are a bunch of ***** with knockbacks ! ;) lol ... With a normal stat , it's ok though . Nothing really overpowered yet, even if my men is at level 1 only. I remember you said that WAC would be unleveled , I was thinkin' that it was simply suicidal for my level 1 a gob' camp. but no it's ok if you know your stuff ... And you know how to use the shield bash of Deadly reflex ... hehe ! I don't know if it's for testing purposes or something like that, but it's very viable . It's fun but i don't think that my level one should have been able to wipe up 6 or 7 goblins like those at the same time .

KEEP UP THE WORK GUYS !! Let's make this mod worthy of kicking any gamer's ass ! :-)
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Waalx
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August 19th, 2008

Mormacil wrote:I must admit my FPS dropped roughly 5-10FPS with Waalx running... Of course I defragged, my C drive as well.

bug(s):
Wide Boots and Wide Boots Black have no value.

edit:
Just an idea while playing. I use Darker Dungeons which makes dungeons really really dark :P So my idea: Flarearrows, arrows that emit light where they hit ^^
cool!

lets see a bit later it the quiet feet can change something about fps. it's possible.

the wide boots have no 'monetary' value? I'll check that.

nice arrow idea. but that not in WAC! :P I keep that in my list, though I cannot make that work by meself. It'll need some scripting for sure.

vorkosigan wrote:
I did find that the demons with the armor in the Demonic Tower were attacking each other, and the smaller demons. Also, none of my arrows hit the 'boss' demon until I aimed very low. I think it's reading as a normal-sized npc instead of the taller size.

Otherwise, wonderful stuff so far! I'll try to put in some more playing time tonight. Smile
ok..what demons exactly? there are only 2 types of demons. The 'demon' and 'black demon', they are in leveled lists of Oblivion at I don't know level 10 or something. both are a minotaur with a demonic head. (it's actually the Bull Scamp head that I transformed to minotaur proportion). So there are no boss demons. :)

otherwise, I think I have placed a couple of Xivilai lords at the top of the oblivion gates, before the sigil stones, as that's where I envision them. I think I have the 'WAC Distance' script on them, so that may be it. Perhaps if anything go close to them they start combat..(hey! I'm not scripter!).

but please define demon. or what name the creature had?

the arrow problem is weird though, it's a creature, it should scale the collision box.

I will go in the oblivion gate tower and try to see by myself. I'll assume you speak of the only gate you can access with the WAC 8th Gate.esp running (for now only Hircine plane and the random gate 01 can open).

baker99 wrote:The creatures like zebras, gamesbok etc. all move very fast, although this makes sense for reality's sake it doesn't let you admire them, I can barely see them on my lcd they move so fast.

The hedgehog, shouldn't it have spines?

The chief goblin tents seem a bit small for a creature that big, he wouldn't be able to sit down and relax.

UL problems, the only one I found was the watchtowers you add, they float in the air, but I'm sure the UL team can make a patch.

If you are making a Smurf village what about Asterix too, he and Obelix would look cool Wink.
zebras and such that flee from you, they have a normal speed. The thing is I gave them more agility to try to prevent the death in slopes bug. It work half way, they take less damage falling and can fall more,but they also jump and perhaps be faster too because of that. it's not a change that big however just to make a difference.

There's a lot of deer kind to watch all over. I don't worry you shall see many. sneak behind them. sometimes the AI get stuck a little bit and they let you come closer. Animal behavior could do with some scripting, but in nature, zebra wouldn't let you come close either.


spikes would be more for a porcupine, no?

I'm going to review the chief and their AI. and meanwhile I'll just make the tent interior a bit bigger, not too much, but a bit bigger won't look too off with the chief size.


Asterix and Obelix would be pushing it a bit. I think the smurf can pass, as they are essentially brownies. (blue ones, but..).

I made a cool drawing of Asterix and Obelix in a realistic view, a few years back tough.. :)

Only Asterix thing is the Asterix Gladius of RealSwords Imperial. will be out laterz!
Krimsyn Kane wrote:that flaming xivali katana, any way to make it emit light like a torch?
I'm sure there's a way. probably need a script to have that work though. also that the blade still emit flame when in the scabbard also. I would need 50 scripters! arg!
Conker343qc wrote: One for the nails on gibbet (all of them) and one for the thing that is used to cook rats in the goblins camps

For the camps, they look very nice ! Although the goblins archers should have a longer sight... I was about 10 feet for the tower and they didn't saw me yet ... :s Goblins looks visually awesome and their weapons are pretty nice also.. And i was wondering if the goblins had random health ?? Cuz i took a Longshot in 3 or 4 hits ... and an other (at the same conditions) in like 15 hits ... In Gnoll's Meet camp , i can't enter the chieftain tent ... is it done ?? or it's a door that has no reference ? Hmmm.... i don't get a bad framerate in the camps... i got a drop when the fire is loading but after that it's just like every place that has a bunch of npc for me ! Smile (Yayz for Streamline !) By the way, keep your luck stat up guys ... When you've been hurt in luck, the Red bull stunted scamps are a bunch of ***** with knockbacks ! Wink lol ... With a normal stat , it's ok though . Nothing really overpowered yet, even if my men is at level 1 only. I remember you said that WAC would be unleveled , I was thinkin' that it was simply suicidal for my level 1 a gob' camp. but no it's ok if you know your stuff ... And you know how to use the shield bash of Deadly reflex ... hehe ! I don't know if it's for testing purposes or something like that, but it's very viable . It's fun but i don't think that my level one should have been able to wipe up 6 or 7 goblins like those at the same time .

I checked the nail texture path of the hanged skeleton you send a pic of. here the texture path in the nif ar the right way, and the texture it should fetch is textures\clutter\metalrust2.dds. a texture everybody should have with Oblivion). so here I'm baffled. don't know. if you see a gibet ( the cages) are they pink too? they use a vanilla metal texture too. and with the hanged skeleton, the wood and ropes are also vanilla, and they work (and rope's in the same folder as metalrust2.dds.

How many goblin camps did you visit? as I said earlier, some can be really hard some a lot less as the leveled goblin list can spawn anything. Phitt seems to have found a very hard batch on first try, a medium on second, and you just got a feeble gang. Be wary though, when they respawn they can be..better :)
Vacuity wrote:I am running with all the ULs at present and all I've noticed thus far is some water-height issues. Assuming the cell function in Bash gets fixed to work without throwing up errors that's not a big issue in the long run (and can often be fixed just with load order).
ok.. water level I didn't touch that. where exactly do you remember?
No, it's one of those things I've yet to learn how to do, and it's one of the skills I am kind of expecting to be poor at, but making this stuff seems like a much simpler task than making a whole new creature or other large objects. As I said: I can try, but no guarantees!
well it's not actually making it, it's just moving stuff around in fact. Get Blender and the nifscript for it (assuming you don't already), and Nifscope.

lets do the 'WAC_Bongo_horns.nif' that hail from \meshes\creatures\deer in the BSA archive.

(you don't have that file unless you have extracted the preAlpha WAC.bsa in your data folder (and I don't recommend it, you should extract the files to work on someplace else.). I'm just saying.)

- Open blender. Find your file and import it with the Nifscript.

- look at it. It can either be at the animal head level (most probably) or can already be at 0.0.0, in either case you have to edit the mesh so it look like its resting on the ground and not upright like that.

- the ground is the grid you see in grey in blender. r-click the mesh to select it, press TAB to enter edit mode. All vertices will be selected in yellow. press 'a' to deselect all. Press 'a' again to select all. Press 'a' to deselect all. OK we learn some shortcuts that are basic, but that you can't function without. TAB to edit. 'a' to select all or none.

- while in edit mode. select all. (press 'b' to draw a rectangle that encompass the whole object). that will select what's under. if you press 'b' two times, you enter draw select mode, where you can paint the area you want to select with adjustable radius on your mouse-wheel.

- with everything selected, press 'w' to see many options. choose remove double and accept the confirmation. Now you mesh is no more strippified, everything is linked back together.

- still in edit mode, (always in edit mode, you never (or very rarely) modify a mesh outside of edit mode). Grab the antlers and bring them down, rotate, deselect all, select one 'polygon island' by hovering your mouse over one antler and press 'l'. That will select linked. Grab half of it and arrange the first antler on the ground so it look natural. deselect and select the other one, and pose it close, or across the previous one. Always mind the invisible ground plane, the object should be over it, not through or below.

- Exit edit mode with your object now on the ground. Now, you need to remove the reference to the skeleton. (I will post a screenshot here.) (this can be done anytime, even in edit mode in fact.)

- Now you have a mesh that is not linked to nothing but itself. Which doesn't mean much for Oblivion engine yet.

- With your object selected, export it with the nifexport script.

Object in Oblivion need a collision box. that can take many shapes, boxes, capsules, and custom collision meshes.

that's where it's becoming harder.

you have two choices.

but before I write a tutorial on collision. and that's not going to be much because I understand it but, not entirely. Try to do the first part!

(I'm weary of writing tonight!).
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August 19th, 2008

Way ahead of you with collision, Waalx

http://niftools.sourceforge.net/wiki/Blender/Collision

I know how to make perfect collision because of this >.<
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Waalx
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August 19th, 2008

that's what I said with not entirely. the tutorial is incomplete too, or very small. find me a decent explanation of Convex Hull Polytope shapes, and all that that is more than a description..

# Convex Hull Polytope: for convex shapes.
# Static Triangle Mesh: for arbitrary shapes.

that doesn't tell nothing about it to me. but those are what I need.

some collisions don't work..no matter what. making boxes and capsules is easy , making convex shapes is something else and doesn't work all the time for god know why, and I made a lot. from scratch or from vanilla objects.

maybe it's me, but I made a lot. And I think that's pretty straightforward to do (or should be), and redoing it should yield the same results, but not always.

hehe
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August 19th, 2008

Waalx, cool, as for hedgehogs British ones have spines http://www.britishhedgehogs.org.uk/gallery.htm although maybe other countries have different types.
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August 19th, 2008

I am suffering from a little heat problem, over 90f and no AC. But got a stable run through the gate and spent 30 minutes exploring, before the gpu temp hit critical level. Amazing would be an understatement, lowered my settings to keep the temp down....still can't believe with all the critters running around me and in battle, very little stutter and frame rate dropped only slightly. Prefer smoothness to pretty, old eyes!

Going to take some time and check out the camps and other critters tomorrow after work.

Truly, this is some wonderful work.
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August 19th, 2008

Waalx wrote: The hedgehog, shouldn't it have spines?
...snip...
spikes would be more for a porcupine, no?
Hedgehogs look like Image

Porcupines look like Image

They both have spines, but they're a bit different, porcupine spines are more like (and are sometimes called) quills.
Waalx wrote: [about light-emitting creatures]
I'm sure there's a way. probably need a script to have that work though. also that the blade still emit flame when in the scabbard also. I would need 50 scripters! arg!
You could probably use the same system as the Shining flame atronach mod to achieve a similar effect.
1) Make a new spell i.e. Creatureonfire.
2) Add a new Effect to the spell record. The effect references the light magic effect (is there any way to add a duplicate light effect? I have 4 mods all changing this record in my load order).
3) In the creature records you want to have the shining effect, add the new spell

You can choose values that suit you.

As a side-note, you might want to know that players who are already using the Shining Flame Atronachs will get a light effect from the following creatures:

Image
Waalx wrote: ok.. water level I didn't touch that. where exactly do you remember?
Right by the sewer exit! About one cell south. It'll be the Imperial City Isle UL. You don't change water heights, but the ULs most certainly do! As I said, load order tweaks (currently I have WAC loading last) will probably fix this, or using Bash to import water levels from the ULs, so don't worry too much about it just yet. Once a version of Bash comes out that flawlessly imports cell data I'll check this again, then it'll just be the landscaping. I'd guess Vorians can fix up patches for those once you've got a more "developed" mod.
Waalx wrote: well it's not actually making it, it's just moving stuff around in fact. Get Blender and the nifscript for it (assuming you don't already), and Nifscope.

lets do the 'WAC_Bongo_horns.nif' that hail from \meshes\creatures\deer in the BSA archive.
Right! That's great! I'll give it a try when I have some spare time... on... Thursday... :(
Thanks for the directions. :)

Vac
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Darina
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August 19th, 2008

Hello everybody! It's me, Darina from the Beth forums. Thanks again for the invitation to test this great mod!

I played a bit with the 0.1 Alpha yesterday (my account wasn't activated yet). And I have to say, those little playthings we get at the sewer exit are marvelous!
Over at Vilverin I met a Bandit Bruiser and a Bandit Thief. The thief was a wimp and only wore vanilla clothing without chest gear. The bruiser was horror and could kill my little level 1 Redguard with 2-3 hits (bare knuckle). She only wore vanilla clothing. Inside Vilverin the two bandits I met so far all wore WAC armor. One had a bit of an weird AI. I have to check this a bit more.
Also, I added Armamentarium Complete for the first time right before WAC. So it might happen that I confuse a few items. Just correct or ignore that.

This evening I'll install the 0.2 and 0.3 patches and return to Vilverin. I'll post a first report after the Ayleid ruin.

Greetz! Darina

PS: Already love the Road Runner! :)
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August 19th, 2008

Just started play testing. Haven't seen any bugs yet.
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August 19th, 2008

buddah wrote:I am suffering from a little heat problem, over 90f and no AC. But got a stable run through the gate and spent 30 minutes exploring, before the gpu temp hit critical level.
It was hot in Montreal today too, and it rained a lot after! I understand the problem perfectly as I lived like 8 years before I finally shelled out for an AC. Let's say the last two summers have been quite a breeze with that.
very little stutter and frame rate dropped only slightly.
that's great! I expect the framerate will drop. And that's normal since it does add a lot. I tried to keep everything optimized without too much loss in quality.
baker99 wrote:Waalx, cool, as for hedgehogs British ones have spines http://www.britishhedgehogs.org.uk/gallery.htm although maybe other countries have different types.
Vacuity wrote:...They both have spines, but they're a bit different, porcupine spines are more like (and are sometimes called) quills.

ahhhhhhh! that's right!. :x (and I hate you both!) :P

To be honest I kind of don't like what I called Hedgehog. it's a bit boring.
I'm going to change the name, and maybe I'll tackle an Hedgehog like this one that I find quite cool. The form is pretty simple.

Image
Vacuity wrote:You could probably use the same system as the Shining flame atronach mod to achieve a similar effect.
1) Make a new spell i.e. Creatureonfire.
2) Add a new Effect to the spell record. The effect references the light magic effect (is there any way to add a duplicate light effect? I have 4 mods all changing this record in my load order).
3) In the creature records you want to have the shining effect, add the new spell
I tried that and I didn't got it to work. (unless I removed it that spell should already be on the blades). I just checked and yes, it's still there!

all the magma blades have a spell called WACWeapFire. but I didm't got it to work. if you check you'll see the effect is already the enchanting of the magma blades. What I missed was the setting 'light'. I was trying to have the actual flame of the atronach on the weapon with that spell. But now as the flames are already in the nif (on the Katana at least), and the spell would control the light, that could work.

I'm going in game to see.

And, so there will be something to see about that thing with the Shining Flame Atronachs, once I got the Xivilai army out of their box (in this case only the red have flames though). ah and the fire djinn.

thanks!

Anybody tried the Djinn's Vessel yet by the way?
Over at Vilverin I met a Bandit Bruiser and a Bandit Thief..

Those are not from WAC. Probably FCOM?

If you want a clear view of the changes WAC does, load all of it last. (well as long as it's for testing you know? :) The two bandits outside should have been geared in the bandits armors I made.

but 0.2 & 0.3 won't change nothing in Villerin. Next time, grab a weapon on the quay, an armor in the barrel by the sewer exit, and find the Djinn's Vessel in a small chest in front of the boat there. and teleport to a goblin camp, summon a djiin, and.... action!


Still, it's nice to see how it does with other mods.

thanks!
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