WAC Beta v0.1 - Downloads, comments, suggestions

[Blackberry]

Using a valuable savegame to test a mod in preAlpha is not a good idea. I said that in the readme.

I saw that in the readme, but the save isn't as valuable as all that. I thought by using an established game it may give some different results than a game started fresh. I will give your solution a try and get back to you with what happens.

[Darina]

Hi Waalx! Sorry for not posting that often in the last days. RL and work keeps me pretty busy... and those last days of summer and sunshine. Though, I have not deserted!

You have revealed some nice goodies since my last visit. I'm pretty sure my Bosmer assassin will love the black Commander Cutlass! (even though it's Dunmer...) And that armored Wardog looks really dangerous. Adrenaline will pump through my veins when that beast comes running for me! The armored Trolls were jaw-dropping and the dog even tops it! Great work, man!

And here is another report of my too few hours visiting WAC's Cyrodiil:

- got attacked by Skelies equipped with Argonian Flamberges. WAC doesn't touch the Undead yet, so I guess it's from FCOM. Though, if these were Argonian Skeletons, where was the skeletal tail? Must have fallen off...

- got many hedgehogs spawning in caves. Intended?

- the 3 broken on the wheel bodies on the road to Cheydinhal have a minor conflict with UL Rolling Hills (one pole is in a rock, but it doesn't look too bad)

- I think it has been reported already, but some sounds of creatures are very loud and hearable from (too) far away. Gargoyles, Lizards and Caimans come to mind.

- the Scaly Slaugtherfish became invisible when dead. It didn't disappear, though. Still had him on my Detect Life Radar. Seems to be the same Alive Waters problem as with the sharks.

- normal Goblins, Archers, Berserker and Warriors are kinda weak and no problem for my level 3 char. Even if they come in numbers. Could be I'm a bit "spoiled" by FCOM's difficulty level regarding Goblins.

- the Wolven Imp has a blue mouth (inside). Is this intended? Otherwise, I love this creature!

- Colovian Leather Greaves have a big gap on the hips of the vanilla female body.

That's all for now. I hope to get some more playtime in the weeks to come!

Best wishes! Darina

[Mormacil]

I apologize for not playing but I'm sort in a dark deep valley of darkness IRL and to be out there asap...

[Conker343qc]

Hey Waalx ,

I'm in my incompatibility testing time , and it seems it's fruitful as i can pack a lot of mods together one at a time and check if there anything wrong . I've found a little something that might interests you : There a weird spawing spot with Let The People Drink 2.5 . At charcoal cave falls, where the aqueduct is going toward the IC, you had placed a Brown caiman spawn (at least for me at lvl 5) , the problem is that they are spawning on the aqueduct . It's kinda weird that those buggers have gone all the way up there, ... Also, i installed Woodland village 1.2 and i was wondering if there was any agressive spawn where it stands, it's hard to know when you have the spawns give a 50% chance to spawn something... so it's pretty much all for this grey day outside ... Keep up the work !

EDIT : I had a something that you might want to correct soon : i was riding on prior's maborel horse and a passed by a white lion (they never attacked me) , but i started to run after me... he was clearly attacking my horse ... so White lions are not hostile to you but to our horses... i don't think it's desirable...

[Waalx]

I saw that in the readme, but the save isn't as valuable as all that. I thought by using an established game it may give some different results than a game started fresh. I will give your solution a try and get back to you with what happens.

yeah I understand your intent Very good, I was just saying that using a savegame you wanted to keep is dangerous with a project that is in Alpha. that's why I suggest you use at least a copy of the savegame, just in case. Hope you were able to solve that though.

- got attacked by Skelies equipped with Argonian Flamberges. WAC doesn't touch the Undead yet, so I guess it's from FCOM. Though, if these were Argonian Skeletons, where was the skeletal tail? Must have fallen off...

that is from FCOM RealSwords as WAC doesn't have the RS weapons yet in the version you have. I have made an orc skull, thus there are now orc skeletons in WAC. I will probably do the khajiit and argonian too. No idea how I'm going to animate a tail on them though. Probably will make just a small part left of it on them.

- got many hedgehogs spawning in caves. Intended?

nope, that's fixed

- the 3 broken on the wheel bodies on the road to Cheydinhal have a minor conflict with UL Rolling Hills (one pole is in a rock, but it doesn't look too bad)

UL will conflict with some stuff I put in. When all is solved I will probably check that with the UL team.

- I think it has been reported already, but some sounds of creatures are very loud and hearable from (too) far away. Gargoyles, Lizards and Caimans come to mind.

very few beasts have appropriate sounds yet. I'm not into sound much so that doesn't grow very fast.

- the Scaly Slaugtherfish became invisible when dead. It didn't disappear, though. Still had him on my Detect Life Radar. Seems to be the same Alive Waters problem as with the sharks.

Scaly Slautherfish isn't from WAC

- normal Goblins, Archers, Berserker and Warriors are kinda weak and no problem for my level 3 char. Even if they come in numbers. Could be I'm a bit "spoiled" by FCOM's difficulty level regarding Goblins.

there's much balance to be done yet, I know. I asked dev_akm and CorePC if they could help about that. They both said they would, but none gave me a word about WAC so far. It's like WAC doesn't exist for them, not until they can take it into MMM and FCOM. Kind of weird as both people work on mods that were done by other people. Can't really tell in public how I feel about this

- the Wolven Imp has a blue mouth (inside). Is this intended? Otherwise, I love this creature!

yeah the imps mouths are sometimes on the same texture space than their eyes color. I'm going to fix that, but I think it's like this in vanilla imp model.

- Colovian Leather Greaves have a big gap on the hips of the vanilla female body.

those aren't from me.

There a weird spawing spot with Let The People Drink 2.5 . At charcoal cave falls, where the aqueduct is going toward the IC, you had placed a Brown caiman spawn (at least for me at lvl 5) , the problem is that they are spawning on the aqueduct .

that's something that will happen with many mods I guess. SO the caiman spawn ON the aqueduk? that's less bad then having them spawn under it and get stuck...at least

i

installed Woodland village 1.2 and i was wondering if there was any agressive spawn where it stands, it's hard to know when you have the spawns give a 50% chance to spawn something

WAC spawns are all at 100% now. 50% spawns will come later-on when I do a second spawning session.

i was riding on prior's maborel horse and a passed by a white lion (they never attacked me) , but i started to run after me... he was clearly attacking my horse ... so White lions are not hostile to you but to our horses... i don't think it's desirable...

yeah I think I left the White Lions able to prey on Prey creatures. I'll check that!

last pic is the final evil armored trolls. they are Goblins beasts. As well as a couple other creatures like Wargs and Hyenas.

[Haruko]

Ack, don't know if this is something that's been reported, or even happened to someone else, but I summoned a Djinn and got a Mage type... he kept getting into fights with the Imperial Guards, and for someone not out to kill everything in the game, that's bad.

[e39042]

Just a suggestion in regards to the trolls, but I think it would be better if they weren't colour coded to match the colour of their Goblin masters. Just mix Brown and Black ones together for some variety. Realistically Goblins aren't going to care what colour a Troll is. Unless it's a region specific thing...

[Mormacil]

I agree a lvl 3-5 should not b e able to beat Goblins but I don't think we should make them to powerful either. Goblins, to me, are weak ans pesky. Much lower in the ranks then orcs. Orcs got strength, Goblins just smell bad

there's much balance to be done yet, I know. I asked dev_akm and CorePC if they could help about that. They both said they would, but none gave me a word about WAC so far. It's like WAC doesn't exist for them, not until they can take it into MMM and FCOM. Kind of weird as both people work on mods that were done by other people. Can't really tell in public how I feel about this

A fair demand would be that no mod is released with WAC content before WAC itself is out beta. This means modders can start implenting it etc jsut not release it. Seems fair to me with a resource this size

There a weird spawing spot with Let The People Drink 2.5 . At charcoal cave falls, where the aqueduct is going toward the IC, you had placed a Brown caiman spawn (at least for me at lvl 5) , the problem is that they are spawning on the aqueduct .

that's something that will happen with many mods I guess. SO the caiman spawn ON the aqueduct? that's less bad then having them spawn under it and get stuck...at least

I think this one is out of the hands of the LTPD team... You can't ask them to move their aqueduct. I suggest move the spawn a little bit to the left or something.

[Waalx]

Just a suggestion in regards to the trolls, but I think it would be better if they weren't colour coded to match the colour of their Goblin masters. Just mix Brown and Black ones together for some variety. Realistically Goblins aren't going to care what colour a Troll is. Unless it's a region specific thing...

well the green troll in bronze armor are with the brown goblin, as the brown goblin also wear bronze armor that means they mine bronze and do the stuff themselves, on the contrary of the black who does steel.

giving steel clad trolls to a group that use only bronze is wrong to me.

if it was as you say I would have went with green goblin-green trolls, black goblins-black trolls and brown goblin - brown troll.

as it is now, the green troll are with the brown goblins, the brown trolls are with the black, and the green goblins have no trolls types so far, only wargs and hyenas. Brown and black goblins also have wargs too.

and i gave the goblins a specific troll race so it can become like a link between the species, and also create an animosity between the trolls depending on who they meet. Goblins will fight each races, so does their pets.

A little later-on, when all my gobs camp are made, I'm going to add Goblins patrols in the forests, and their goal will be an enemy camp.

Waalx wrote:

there's much balance to be done yet, I know. I asked dev_akm and CorePC if they could help about that. They both said they would, but none gave me a word about WAC so far. It's like WAC doesn't exist for them, not until they can take it into MMM and FCOM. Kind of weird as both people work on mods that were done by other people. Can't really tell in public how I feel about this

A fair demand would be that no mod is released with WAC content before WAC itself is out beta. This means modders can start implenting it etc jsut not release it.

it's already like this now. you can't pull from WAC as long as I'm not sure everything is OK.

By the way, you completely missed the point of what I was saying...

Seems fair to me with a resource this size

WAC isn't a resource, it's an overhaul. I don't make WAC to supply content to FCOM or MMM but to be something that stand on it's own. You cannot take ALL the WAC content and package it in another mod. That is one of the big NO. As much as you don't repackage OOO, or MMM, or FRAN.

If you want only a couple of things in it, you can split a few things and include them in another mod. But if it's about using all there is in WAC, the Waalx Animals & Creatures.esm file is the only option. That .esm and the content it drive is a library that you cannot redistribute, there shall be only one source for it, the original version.

Otherwise the stuff will go to the dogs, and updates I made to the original mod will not be covered/updated elsewhere and I doubt people will want to re-download the file size of WAC multiple times... beside I don't want that at all. WAC is my overhaul, it shouldn't be redistributed by somebody else than me for as long as I do it. That's just normal I think..

So one version. If you don't like how it is in the master file of WAC, you make an esp that modify that master file, like for vanilla Oblivion, or for other overhaul.. That way when I upgrade the thing, it will upgrade everywhere it's being used, and meanwhile add more options to be used by other mods.
The wac.esp. and other esp that come with the master are my take on how it should be placed in the world. If someone want to use the content of WAC, the master is an easy library to pull from and will not modify anything in other configurations, even if they don't run the WAC esps.

Other overhaul are independent release that stay a single thing. Same thing here, and even more so since I have nothing that come from other sources in it.

I went overboard in this answer

I think this one is out of the hands of the LTPD team... You can't ask them to move their aqueduct. I suggest move the spawn a little bit to the left or something.

Nah I didn't say that either I was going to check that spawn and move it actually.

yet that is still something that will never end, depending on what mod people run.

I will do my best to solve problems, but I can't know of every mod there is, nor should I feel forced to comply to anything else than how Vanilla Oblivion is, if I need to.

[Mormacil]

Waalx wrote:

there's much balance to be done yet, I know. I asked dev_akm and CorePC if they could help about that. They both said they would, but none gave me a word about WAC so far. It's like WAC doesn't exist for them, not until they can take it into MMM and FCOM. Kind of weird as both people work on mods that were done by other people. Can't really tell in public how I feel about this

A fair demand would be that no mod is released with WAC content before WAC itself is out beta. This means modders can start implenting it etc jsut not release it.

it's already like this now. you can't pull from WAC as long as I'm not sure everything is OK.

By the way, you completely missed the point of what I was saying...

I thought your point was you were disappointed they're not really putting any effort into it as long as it's not directly usable for their own mods. So my idea was that they can wait all their want but not release until they helped balancing WAC

Seems fair to me with a resource this size

WAC isn't a resource, it's an overhaul. I don't make WAC to supply content to FCOM or MMM but to be something that stand on it's own. You cannot take ALL the WAC content and package it in another mod. That is one of the big NO. As much as you don't repackage OOO, or MMM, or FRAN.

If you want only a couple of things in it, you can split a few things and include them in another mod. But if it's about using all there is in WAC, the Waalx Animals & Creatures.esm file is the only option. That .esm and the content it drive is a library that you cannot redistribute, there shall be only one source for it, the original version.

Otherwise the stuff will go to the dogs, and updates I made to the original mod will not be covered/updated elsewhere and I doubt people will want to re-download the file size of WAC multiple times... beside I don't want that at all. WAC is my overhaul, it shouldn't be redistributed by somebody else than me for as long as I do it. That's just normal I think..

So one version. If you don't like how it is in the master file of WAC, you make an esp that modify that master file, like for vanilla Oblivion, or for other overhaul.. That way when I upgrade the thing, it will upgrade everywhere it's being used, and meanwhile add more options to be used by other mods.
The wac.esp. and other esp that come with the master are my take on how it should be placed in the world. If someone want to use the content of WAC, the master is an easy library to pull from and will not modify anything in other configurations, even if they don't run the WAC esps.

Other overhaul are independent release that stay a single thing. Same thing here, and even more so since I have nothing that come from other sources in it.

I went overboard in this answer

I know WAC is an overhaul, a great one I can imaging... But it's also free to use where credit is given right? So to them it's just a resource for their own overhauls.

I think this one is out of the hands of the LTPD team... You can't ask them to move their aqueduct. I suggest move the spawn a little bit to the left or something.

Nah I didn't say that either I was going to check that spawn and move it actually.

yet that is still something that will never end, depending on what mod people run.

I will do my best to solve problems, but I can't know of every mod there is, nor should I feel forced to comply to anything else than how Vanilla Oblivion is, if I need to.

It was early in the morning, way to. I just think it's fair to LTPD that always made compatibility patches when they could

[Vacuity]

I had hardware problems.

I went seriously ill.

My apartment flooded in a typhoon.

But I am finally getting to play, and thus report a couple of bugs! I am so sorry it took this long...

I remembered you mentioning that Hieronymus Lex had his own personal troll companion, but when I saw him wandering around the IC there was no troll. So I went on a search. Eventually I found the troll in the office of the prison district. A few seconds after I walked in, suddenly the troll took off, out the door and towards the city. I followed him and sure enough he headed straight for Hieronymus Lex. This was a game which I started from absolute scratch (even the tutorial) with WAC active, so it seems a bit strange that the troll was sitting around for that long. If I had to guess, I'd say that the AI package only activated when I walked into the same cell as Storm.

Secondly, I found a Bongo (looks wonderful, btw) and I wandered around it taking screenshots while it stood there eating grass and looking around. Shouldn't it run away when I get too close (like pretty much all the other prey creatures)?

Now, a long time ago we were talking about ingredients. Are you still in any way interested in me trying my hand at making suitable loot items for creatures like the gerbils?

If I can just track down my regular CTD I'll be happy.

Vac

[StarX]

I remembered you mentioning that Hieronymus Lex had his own personal troll companion, but when I saw him wandering around the IC there was no troll. So I went on a search. Eventually I found the troll in the office of the prison district. A few seconds after I walked in, suddenly the troll took off, out the door and towards the city. I followed him and sure enough he headed straight for Hieronymus Lex. This was a game which I started from absolute scratch (even the tutorial) with WAC active, so it seems a bit strange that the troll was sitting around for that long. If I had to guess, I'd say that the AI package only activated when I walked into the same cell as Storm.

My guess is that "No Low Level Processing" is still checked. Which means that indeed the package only activates when the player is in the same cell.

Oops EDIT: Hope you are alright now after getting ill and the typhoon! Must be horrible...

[F0xHunter]

I don't know if this have been said. But when I'm using UL Imperial Isle with WAC, the game crashes . But unchecking the UL mod solved the prob.
Anyone having the same problem, or know what might cause it?

[Waalx]

I had hardware problems.

I went seriously ill.

My apartment flooded in a typhoon.

But I am finally getting to play, and thus report a couple of bugs! I am so sorry it took this long...

I remembered you mentioning that Hieronymus Lex had his own personal troll companion, but when I saw him wandering around the IC there was no troll. So I went on a search. Eventually I found the troll in the office of the prison district. A few seconds after I walked in, suddenly the troll took off, out the door and towards the city. I followed him and sure enough he headed straight for Hieronymus Lex. This was a game which I started from absolute scratch (even the tutorial) with WAC active, so it seems a bit strange that the troll was sitting around for that long. If I had to guess, I'd say that the AI package only activated when I walked into the same cell as Storm.

Secondly, I found a Bongo (looks wonderful, btw) and I wandered around it taking screenshots while it stood there eating grass and looking around. Shouldn't it run away when I get too close (like pretty much all the other prey creatures)?

Now, a long time ago we were talking about ingredients. Are you still in any way interested in me trying my hand at making suitable loot items for creatures like the gerbils?

If I can just track down my regular CTD I'll be happy.

Vac

Sorry about the bad stuff happening to you lately! Try to look at it on the bright side though, when all goes wrong, it can only get better later-on

Thanks for looking out for Storm! Indeed as StarX said after, he doesn't move because he was on No Low Level Processing. I changed that. Anyway I'm giving the final touch to the White Trolls at the moment, so this bug report fit


The Bongo as most other deer types of WAC have an aggression of 100, and a confidence of 0. So they should flee. It happen however that sometimes they will ignore you. Probably an AI overload bug, or just too much to process around where you was. I think only the Gemsbok will always let you close and no be bothered until you hit them. Gemsbok females will flee if they get hit, males will retaliate.

As for the loot... Yeah, you can do something if you'd like. For the mouses, I solved it with a special item list so they can provide something different than animal part. They have cheese in them or small veggies and stuff like that.. I don't know what can be salvaged from a mouse in fact... if you want to do something else you can go ahead and lets see.

I don't know if this have been said. But when I'm using UL Imperial Isle with WAC, the game crashes . But unchecking the UL mod solved the prob.
Anyone having the same problem, or know what might cause it?

there have been report of water level being different at the sewer exit because of UL. No one reported crashing because of it though. That's bad.

[DarkWind]

This has probably been said a thousand times, but the leather bracers and gauntlets clip with most vanilla armours. And pheasants have clannfear claws. I ran into a razorback boar in blackwood today. It's lucky they're slow, cos there are powerful

[Conker343qc]

i see i started a near-debate about compatibility .... I thought good to mention it because it was a simple correction (i think, so n00b at modding ) and because pretty much everyone know or play with this mod on... by the way, how many version of alpha we'll get to play (estimate ) before. I know you plan to add a lot to v.5, but i'm just curious about any "schedule" you might have If there's one of course ... Keep it up man

[StarX]

I don't know if this have been said. But when I'm using UL Imperial Isle with WAC, the game crashes . But unchecking the UL mod solved the prob.
Anyone having the same problem, or know what might cause it?

I'm certain the UL team will deliver the patches that are needed once WAC comes out of the closet. They have some talented peeps that have become very handy at doing so. They made one for my vampire mod, so they'll surely do it for WAC.

[Krimsyn Kane]

They made one for my vampire mod, so they'll surely do it for WAC.

Speaking of which, any thoughts on diversifying the vampires like you're doing with the bandits? Granted there's still more then enough stuff that you're already working on, just wondering if it was something you were at all interested in.

If you are, maybe StarX could help? Vanilla Vampires Revised is great, something similar could fit into WAC...assuming ya'll are interested, of course.

[Haruko]

I too almost lost my home to flooding, the water was waist deep outside my place, and it came withing 4 inches of going inside... (luckily my house is raised up on a platform, so I managed to avoid most of the damage, but it was really close) have to fix some of my floors and insilation, maybe even some wires.

Bug reports remain nominal... same issues as always, the strange sound fx, the Djinn attacking Imperials, ect.

[dewshine]

No real bug reports, but I'm still testing stuff.

The Dijjin summons conflict with SM and LAME, as we figured it would, so no surprise there. I'm wondering, is it part of the WWW plug? Or is that spell in the esm. I should try moving the plug to below my bashed patch and see if that helps.


Those wild chimps are tough little monsters. I was attacked by a group of them (5 total), and although I have a very powerful bow with an enchatment on it and powerful arrows I was only able to injure them before they ran away. No one shot kills on those, .


Otherwise, even after putting Frans back in (Frans creatures) I've not noticed problems with the armless being dead, at least on a new game. The bandit behavior of chasing them down seems to be hit and miss, and with my second test character I'm not seeing them do that like they did with the first one.