WAC Beta v0.1 - Downloads, comments, suggestions

[Catlinman]

The big game,good game etc. is meat you get from animals
I think you can go to a butcher and he will make a stake or someting else

[Conker343qc]

Hey everyone !

I've just found out a little friend on the road to Leyawiin near Bawn...



He's called Pama and he's a little tiger that follows me since i've left Bawnwatch camp. . I dunno if it's intentional, but it's nice anyway .

Plus, I can only say that so far, WAC is totally seamless with everything i have in my mod list, no weird bugs , good spawn placement... everything's fine ! I saw fears , crocodiles, Blue squal, seagulls, ducks, armless, tigers, lions, white tail bucks, etc. They are are of a fine quality, just as you expect from a Waalx creation.

It's sure that there is still the incompatibilites with the camps and ULs and other mods, but this is really minor compared to what you get in return. Hail to WAC !!

[NoName101]

@Catlinman:
Thanks I thought it had something to do along the lines of that. I just didn't drop it!

@Conker:
Hes adorable. Nice Find!



I did a bit more testing and the animals are very well done. Maybe now I will enjoy running through the wilderness.

Once again. BYE FCOM!

Maybe we will see a FCWOM, WFCOM, FWCOM, FCOWM?
Just hope that WAC is mostly dominant. For the loot. The loot is awesome.
The...Everything is awesome. The armor is crazy. Maybe though it should be a bit rarer?

Anyhoo, Nice mod.
Looking forward to the next release soon!

[Shikamaru]

*pokes Waalx with a stick* Hope he didnt forget about me ...

[Mormacil]

Doubt there will be a FCWOM as Waalx want people to play his view and not those of the FCOM team. Can't blame him at all.

[Conker343qc]

Doubt there will be a FCWOM as Waalx want people to play his view and not those of the FCOM team. Can't blame him at all.

x1000 with Mormacil.... Goodbye FCOM...

[NoName101]

I rather have it that way too. My comment was Just hypothetically.

[Mormacil]

He haven't taken any offense, right lads? Hypothetical thinking is good.

[NoName101]

No, not at all. Should have been more specific. And yes Hypothetical thinking is good.

[Waalx]

I told you I would have something for you guys by the end of last week. I didn't had the time to work a lot on WAC last week unfortunately. Yet...

I made an RS - Gladiator preAlpha fer ye all!

Click this big text to download the first version of this mod! Read-Me is included in the archive. READ THE READ-ME! please!
RS - Gladiator v0.01 preAlpha


now let's answer the messages

Holy rabbit!

I use Unique Landscapes and I found that some of that the Imperial Isle has the most conflict, like different water levels and some fish outta' water among other things.

Thanks again for the pictures.

The Imperial Isle with UL is probably due to the crucifixion ground mostly. I have to check to make it optional maybe later.

Other than the crucifixion ground, I didn't modify the rest of the island at all.

1.After I die and load a save or just from getting board and loading a save the game crashes

2.I noticed that the bandits have some realy nice armors but in some casses they have the normal
armor with some bandit pants and some arena gauntlets. Is this sopossed to be so Dunno

3.When I make a new charakter I have more than one nord,imperial etc. race just with beards
and i can change the hair colour but not the hair type plus when i change the nord with brown beard male
to brown beard female the game crashes

4.My wood elf now has dark eyes Shocked


The wood elf with beard has normal eyes

1. no idea. "or just from getting board" what does that mean 'getting board'? Bored? boarded? either way I don't get the signification. Border?

2. that could be due to another mod I guess. Although I did let some vanilla items in the bandits equipments. No arena gauntlets though.

3. that's answered in the read me and several time already in this topic. Its fixed in the next version.

4. As they should.

Bearded Bosmer is fixed in next version.

Just my way of saying- I may be lurksome and quiet, but I haven't forgotten what I signed up here for.

Most user on here are lurkers. No problem.
There's more than a couple thousand WAC downloads so far, but very few people who come back to comments in comparison.

About the Hair and the beards :

I noticed that if I select the race that i want to be and i then try to change the hair it does´nt work
but if I select the race that i want , click on done then select edit race
( I made a save before I exit the sewer so that if I want to make a new charakter I dont have to play the intro again )
and then ( from me already have selected the race) change the hair it works Surprised

One other thing i found was that if you go to the realswords khajit tower
the merchant does´nt have any swords or wears that you can buy and that you can just steal
a sword and nobody says anything plus the cabinets are unlocked Dunno

hairs and beards are fixed in next version.

Khajiit Tower is fixed in next version.

Played more and ended up ditching FCOM.

pretty cool for me to hear that what I did alone will replace the work of dozen (and more) individuals.

Also whats with the Big game, good game, small game in the barrel when you leave the tutorial sewers

test material (for my own usage). Chests and barrel there are full of testing material. in the next version of WAC those will hold different things than in v0.05b.

I've just found out a little friend on the road to Leyawiin near Bawn...

Pama the Jaguar is the companion of the Khajiit summon merchant (by StarX). He's not supposed to follow a player. Need to check what could cause this.

Plus, I can only say that so far, WAC is totally seamless with everything i have in my mod list, no weird bugs , good spawn placement... everything's fine ! I saw fears , crocodiles, Blue squal, seagulls, ducks, armless, tigers, lions, white tail bucks, etc. They are are of a fine quality, just as you expect from a Waalx creation. Smile

*pokes Waalx with a stick* Hope he didnt forget about me ..

I didn't sorry. My modding time last week was down to ridiculous amount because of several real life factors.

I did check the patch you did though. Unfortunately, the overall of what I saw didn't agree with me at all.

I can't get how making most loot from creatures weight ridiculous small size could be called balancing something. Almost none of what the creatures ARE have been taken into account either into the calculations.

My feeling is it's made as a cheat. If a lion skin can weight as low as 1, it's a cheat. If you don't take into consideration the physical dimension and or difficulty of each beast compared to each other, it's not balance, it's just number thrown without thinking about the subject itself. For example, Sabertooth in your esp is worth less than a lion, weight less too. And even the man-eaters have skins with values that don't reflect their actual value based on their obvious deteriorated quality.

You say realism vs playability. I say it's not adding to playability at all to be able to carry 150 sabertooth skin on your back like if they where rabbit skins. It's adding a cheat way of playing.
I'm trying to add many kind of loot to each beast for this very reason, that a player have to choose what he/she will get from a kill. If a sabertooth tiger skin weight as much as a potion, it doesn't work at all. Hunting become meaningless.

Same with the value of the meat carcass. They are meant to be really heavy. You shouldn't not be able to carry more than one Great Carcass at a time, two if you're strong.

Meaning that if you want to hunt you have to drop most of your inventory somewhere before you go on a hunt. Otherwise..it's just piling stuff in an inventory.

Values and weight should reflect what the object are and also how difficult it is to get them. And also scale with the other items accordingly.
I can't see that in what you sent me. Either the items is undervalued (mostly in weight) or there are gap between items values that doesn't make sense logically.

We need to talk about this. I don't understand the way you did your calculations. If that reflect what FCOM do, then WAC will not be based on this.
I consider the hauling of stuff to be a valuable gameplay element, so values that would just help pile as much stuff you can in an inventory is a bad thing to me. That is game breaking. Limitations when placed wisely are the best way to have an interesting gameplay.

ie:
Weight of armors in WAC 'start' to reflect that thinking already. You can get a very nice full plate at level one. Most character won't be strong enough to move around with it though, and the strongest will pay with an almost no inventory space left. In that example, yeah the armors are not realistic, they weight more. But this add to the world and gameplay in my opinion. It give both opportunity to use powerful stuff at low level, but also will limit the player greatly if if chose to use that early.

That is the mindset of WAC, to give the player something hard to deal with.

Doubt there will be a FCWOM as Waalx want people to play his view and not those of the FCOM team. Can't blame him at all.

there probably will be something, but I really doubt they will change their acronym for WAC.

While it's true that I consider adding WAC to FCOM something that is not really in the essence of WAC itself, WAC doesn't cover as much ground, and probably will stay somehow smaller in size than an FCOM install.

However, WAC in my opinion is and will always be easier to run and install as it doesn't need nor use outside resources. (once a few bugs are out of course!)

Several areas (in modding) are not my cup of tea to begin with, so other overhaul will help fill the gap that WAC doesn't touch.

x1000 with Mormacil.... Goodbye FCOM...

[Mormacil]

As in reply to the cat following the player it would be a cool feature if you do it with 'wild'/strayed dogs. Let them follow the player around. Maybe longer the more the player feeds them. Doesn't have to be dogs though could be anything. See them as temporarily companions. Animals can be a bit sentient right?

[Shikamaru]

Waalx , I understand where your coming from , I do . So I'm guessing that you intended to rebalance Vanillia Oblivion as well ? Otherwise WAC will stick out like a sore thumb from regular vanilla content .

Also , in reality , when you gather stuff some animals , portion size is an option . To this end what an alchamist would use as a portion size would be quite wieght alot less . The carcass's can be reverted , I see you point on that . Pelts were done in relation to other things in oblivion , and the files avaible were a ruff draft . Bag of holdem is a cheat , not my file .

Anyways , nothing but respect for the great work your doing hrere . your an exceptional moddeler and I eargerly await a public release


Best wishes ,
Shikamaru

[Waalx]

Waalx , I understand where your coming from , I do . So I'm guessing that you intended to rebalance Vanillia Oblivion as well ? Otherwise WAC will stick out like a sore thumb from regular vanilla content .

yes, rebalancing part of vanilla for WAC is in mind, otherwise things would not fit.

If I follow through with what I have in mind for a new armor system that is completely un-leveled, I will modify the armors of vanilla for one. WAC already add many variations and robes too, clothes will come after.

Also , in reality , when you gather stuff some animals , portion size is an option .

Portion size is also an option in WAC, apart from the selection of parts in a creature can get, you will usually find small meat portions to choose from beside the whole carcass. Clicking TAKE-ALL must be used with respect.

To this end what an alchamist would use as a portion size would be quite wieght alot less .

Alchemical items need not to have heavy weights, I was more talking of big things that went down to weight not enough, or that don't scale toward a same species. Just the lions of WAC, enough cats types to make an example, it was clear that you didn't take their size or strength, or in fact what the animal is in consideration with what you gave as value.

another example of what I have in mind is to destabilize the potion system completely with WAC. I remember when I was playing I could get to carry an insane amount of potions around (that I mostly never used anyway). I want to do something about this in WAC to prevent a user to be able to carry 100 potions at the same time. The answer again lie in weight. Maximize the weight and any player will have trouble to haul dozens upon dozens of potions.

The carcass's can be reverted , I see you point on that .

They are really meant to be quite heavy. It's a reason for a player to unload his gear first before going to hunt carcass meat for sale. You shouldn't carry a carcass around for fun.

Pelts were done in relation to other things in oblivion ,

in your mod, a Sabertooth Tiger pelt weight 3. And I think the Sabertooth is 1, when a smaller lion sized skin got 2.

In vanilla, a mountain lion pelt is 6. A bear pelt is 8.

Visually a Sabertooth Tiger is like 2-3 times bigger than a mountain lion , 2 bear or...

It was obviously not done in relation to Oblivion. The numbers says otherwise.
This is just for the weight value. I did find discrepancy in the other values as well when comparing one creature to another.
This is only because of one thing I'm quite sure, so I'll give you the only solution to this that I know of.

1 -Open a test cell, one of WAC or one of Vanilla, or make your own.

2- Align the creatures you are working with on a ground plane. This is the first thing you need to do before working on their attributes. You need to get to know your subjects.
ie.
If you works on mountain lions types, align them all in a row, so you can see them all at once, everything under Mountain Lions category, all under your eyes at the same time.

Otherwise you just cannot gauge anything. Just working by reading their names will not help much, opening all creatures references windows at once and reading numbers will not give you this perception either, nor will you be able to see them all at once.

Knowing your subjects is key to making something that goes well in relation to each other.

See them all together first, and then you can go and give a more accurate size and weight to things. And faster (in the end).

Because making those visual preview will take you more time than if you try to go by 'instinct' at first, but in the end you will be able to make the right decision much more accurately, and you will in fact save time. If you try to give weight to a bongo and and a deer and a horse, you need to see them together first.

and the files avaible were a ruff draft .

That what we are talking of now, the first rough draft.

Bag of holdem is a cheat , not my file .

If your file give a creature as big as a lion a skin weight 6 times less than a creature smaller it's size in the original game, yeah sorry, but I consider this a cheat made to grab as many thing you can in your inventory.

A cheat doesn't sound right to the ear maybe, but it's a removal of limitations to me. Thus somekind of a cheat.

and I eargerly await a public release


Best wishes ,

repost on this:
I told you I would have something for you guys by the end of last week. I didn't had the time to work a lot on WAC last week unfortunately. Yet...

I made an RS - Gladiator preAlpha fer ye all!

Click this big text to download the first version of this mod! Read-Me is included in the archive. READ THE READ-ME! please!
RS - Gladiator v0.01 preAlpha

[Shikamaru]

Although I agree that my ruff draft will need revision , I feel that continuing to work on it in the pure WAC spirit is contradictary to my intail goals { Have WAC play along with FCOM } . At this stage , I simply can not make any meaningful contirbution. Balancing stats to fit WAC does not bring it any closer , but rather further away . So I'll demote myself to status of fanboy and wait.

Nothing but respect for you , WAC once done with be a truly great expirence .

[Maigrets]

Now downloading RS Gladiator... And I promise to read the docs.

I'm not sure when I can give feedback though. I haven't done anything with Cypress House either. Real life stuff as well. But, I should be able to get something done this week. Maybe finish it if I get my backside in gear.

I have to read up on in game book formatting first but it doesn't look too hard. Just time consuming.



Edit:
ROFLMAO........I can think of 13 morons....

[megazogg]

Oh, new toy!!! Can't wait to see what you've done in Gladiator, Waalx! As for comments, I have some ideas, so I want to share them with you, if you don't mind.

First of all, I'd like to stop on compatibility issues of WAC with UL. If you will set UL plugins to load AFTER WAC it will minimize the conflicts and will show no land tearing at all. You can still find some of WAC stuff, like broderwatch posts and different execution devices buried into the ground a little more then they supposed to be, but this is tolerable. There is still one major conflict with UL in the area of Bandit camp north-west from Cheydinhal, because of the bandit camp placed right in the mountain steam, but then again, you can always start to imagine that bandits simply began irrigation works there.

Second, I've encountered Wood Witches several times and I found that their necklace is too expansive (I use Economy mod, so it costs ~ 10000 gp in my game) and it have too powerful and imo unneeded enchantment, giving them 20% resistance to magick (and they already have almost total immunity to magick via race bonus), so that if player managed to kill several of them, he can raise funds rather easy.
Also, it would be great to give them some unique clothes or armor, something not too fancy as they live in forests, but something interesting. Besides that, I don't see the reason to make special race for them (not very lore-friendly), imo, they could be some kind of "feral" or "crazed" type of Bosmer females (taking in account Bosmer's Green Pact). But once again, it is my imo.

Third and last, I'd like to propose to you to use "Medieval Oblivion Equipment Balance System (MOBS)" as a base for your armors and weapons, since it fixes and tweaks Oblivion's vanilla stats, making them more "realistic" (reasonable) and diverse. More ever, you will have solid base of stats, so there will be no need to invent a wheel were it doesn’t needed. Presently, stats of your weapons are sometimes quite close to stats, used in MOBS.
If you want, I can help you to migrate all of your stuff to MOBS, as I was forced to began to do so because of two little plugins one of which changes the game to take player's strength and other stats in account then calculating weapon damage, and Damar Stiehl's Diverse Races (which expands pros and cons for each race), so it is pretty easy for Nord battlemage to defeat most of enemies with his strength = 80 and Atronarch birthsign.

[Catlinman]

Sorry about the spelling

1.After I die and load a save or just from getting board and loading a save the game crashes

1. no idea. "or just from getting board" what does that mean 'getting board'? Bored? boarded? either way I don't get the signification. Border?

I meant getting tired of playing the same character all the time

Btw when i entered "The Dividing Line" in Leyawiin a dog attacked me.
Is that supposed to happen ?

[Mormacil]

Two notes:

1) Loot(values) haven't been touched yet. These are just guesses and raw drafts no real thinking gone into it.

2) This mod is more inspirited on Conan and the likes then TES lore. We keep to try Waalx to follow lore a little but we can only expect so much from him. As for the Bosmer I agree but who knows nothing wrong with a witch order and then again Beth totally raped lore in TES4

[NoName101]

Nice job on the arena. Oh and for the (For Now) after your warning.

But, anyway......The armor is awesome. I can`t wait to see the finished release. With all the awesome armor and that warning disappeared in the readme. When Waalx says read the readme. You really should.

Anyhoo. The helms are awesome!

Forgot to add that the swords are AMAZING. Nothing but respect Waalx!
I definitely don't regret leaving FCOM now. *gets slapped*

[SirNoweth]

I downloaded this quite a while ago, and it's only now that I begin posting to give my first impressions because I wanted to experience as much of WAC as possible before telling you how it went.

How did it go? Simply amazing...

The first day I installed WAC, I went with a new character to Anvil to begin the Nights of the Nine quest. As I exited Anvil to search for wayshrines to pray to, I decided to visit the Mara one near the city I just exited. As I was walking down the road, I stumbled upon three hyenas. As a level three character, dispatching them was somewhat difficult, yet loads of fun. Out of nowhere, two more ambush me. I felled them just the same and went on my way.

I decided to head to Lord Drad's Estate and found a black shire horse waiting for me. Seeing how it was a free ride, I took it. No longer following the roads, I left to locate the Mara wayshrine once more. The trek went well, until I spotted a Sabretooth tiger! I must say, the sight of this thing kept my eyes agape for quite some time, but my eyes were closed if you compare them to the shock I felt when I saw that it noticed me and starting charging straight for me. And let me tell you, those cats run fast! They easily caught up to my shire horse and got in a few hits before I lost it. Riding through the fields of yellow grass, I tried to calm down and head for the wayshrine once again. But I then encountered a Blue Wildebeest, and boy, was it mad. It followed me the same way the tiger did, but I was so close to the wayshrine; I couldn't stop now. But when I got to the wayshrine, I saw the tiger waiting for me, along with a new creature...

I dismounted my horse and the tiger decided I would be its' next dinner. As it hit me, however, the other creature waiting for me pounced, and struck the tiger right in the back. My saviour turned out to be a White Lioness! She dispatched the tiger and charged after the wildebeest that was apparently still near me. She ended up killing it, too but was badly wounded after those two bouts. The least I could do was heal her up to decent health. But man, what an enjoyable adventure!

I'm really starting to respect those White Lion(esse)s you mentioned in your first post, Waalx. They truly are helpful. The one that saved my behind from two dangerous predators must be payed in debt for her heroic deeds. Honestly, this is such a wonderful mod: the items are all beautifully done, the creatures are entertaining and beautiful, and the other features are equally as good. I've been having so much fun with this so far, thank you so much for allowing me to enjoy this piece of beauty. It was an honor, even though I didn't really help in bug squashing.

I really do hate bringing up FCOM in this discussion, but consider this as another plea to do something about computability with it when the time comes (FCOM 1.0 is released, WAC is out of Alpha/Beta stage, etc.). I, too share the dream of seeing WAC in an FCOM-based game (or vice versa), and not having one take dominance over loot or monster placement. I understand you and dev might share different visions on how Oblivion should run, but I hope you two can find a way to let bygones be bygones and mix these two ideas together. I hope I'm not sounding selfish or anything, but seeing these two monster ideas (no pun intended) combined would be simply the greatest thing the Oblivion world has seen.

Once again, for giving me the privilege to play this mod. Best of luck on its' future development.