character generation problem

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wildmagicrose87
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I've discovered that WAC is causing a serious problem in character generation for me. It seems that when I cycle to the race of my choice, the hair and, in some cases, eyes, become locked, or stuck. I can change hair length and color, but that's it. I know this mod is the culprit, for I checked the game with WAC active and then deactivated, and WAC was clearly the problem.

I chose to post a new thread rather than in an already bloated help thread in the hopes of getting this fixed, as well as seeing if others are having this problem.
Morturro
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I have that problem too; my work-around is to set up the character how I like sans eye/hair, then save and use the "showracemenu" console command to tweak the eyes and hair. Doesn't fix the problem, per se, but it helps get the character to look how I want it.
washington
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I can't help you right now because I don't know much about that but there is a huge variety of races that aren't meant to be played (at least for now) but instead they are there just for setting interesting looking NPCs.
I'm talking about many beardy subtypes etc.

So if the problem occurs only when selecting one of these races, just select normal playable races instead.
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Maigrets
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Morturro wrote:I have that problem too; my work-around is to set up the character how I like sans eye/hair, then save and use the "showracemenu" console command to tweak the eyes and hair. Doesn't fix the problem, per se, but it helps get the character to look how I want it.
This happens to me as well, but only with eyes and I do the same as you. Make my character then reload the game and use the console.

I would try to change my character's eyes at the sewer exit, but for some unknown reason, even with a pure vanilla test character it always crashes the game as I say "Finish" and exit if I've done any editing. The console is more reliable IMHO.. :lol: It's not worth re-installing the game for that "small" glitch and I should also say this has been happening since I last installed the game and before any mods were added, so it's not mod related as far as I can tell.

I only use my own customized races so it's not a matter of selecting the unplayable ones added by WAC and my races are loaded after all WAC files, which I don't think really matters because it happens either way.
cold burn
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Oh this happens whenever you pass a race that has a category (in this case hair) with no entries. Basically whenever you pass a race that has no hair you will not be able to select any hairs until you exist and re-enter the character creation menu. This applies to eyes too and I think you can fix this with wrye bash or the CS... but it honestly never bothered me so I don't know how to fix it myself.
StormDrummer
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Re. Maigrets' problem with the eyes: A similar one occurs when you use a custom hair at chargen and then access the character with the hair mod off. There's a mod called ShowRaceMenuFix that corrects that:

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4802

Maybe it could solve the eye problem, or provide insight into how to fix it.
StormDrummer
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Now for my problem: WAC seems to disable any custom hair or face mods (and some body textures) I try to use on vanilla races. Changing the load order apparently doesn't help, and I know nothing about Wrye Bash. Can anyone help me out?
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Maigrets
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StormDrummer wrote:Now for my problem: WAC seems to disable any custom hair or face mods (and some body textures) I try to use on vanilla races. Changing the load order apparently doesn't help, and I know nothing about Wrye Bash. Can anyone help me out?
I don't understand what you mean here. I have both Robert's male and HGEC face and body textures with no problems. Other body or face textures should work as well.

Unless you're talking about a complete NPC overhaul mod, which will then be disabled because WAC uses the default races itself. You can't have both as far as I know. It would defeat the purpose of WAC because the mod itself is based around the NPC's and races in a lore friendly way.
Re. Maigrets' problem with the eyes: A similar one occurs when you use a custom hair at chargen and then access the character with the hair mod off. There's a mod called ShowRaceMenuFix that corrects that:
Wyre Bash does the same thing as does Face Exchange Lite. It's not actually a "problem" such for me as I often change my character's hair or make alterations to the face using the console. I believe the chargen issue will be fixed at some point though.
Some humans would do anything to see if it was possible to do it. If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on it sayingEnd Of The World Switch PLEASE DO NOT TOUCHthe paint wouldn't even have time to dry. Terry Pratchett
StormDrummer
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Oops! My bad! The "hair problem" was caused by an entirely different bug that makes save games fail to update when something changes, and I was trying to use a saved start character. The hair mods do work with new characters. The face textures were Breton Freckles, and one I used to replace Wood Elf faces. The body texture is one that came with the Male Hair Mod (which also adds a race, though it adds facial hair as hairstyles.) That one is streaked, as though used with the wrong mesh (I've made no body changes recently.) The added race is the only one with the body texes affected as far as I know. I tried turning off WAC, but the textures are still overwritten...*shrug* I'll try adding a Roberts tex to that one, but I don't think that'll work with the faces....

And just to make a complete and total fool of myself, I misunderstood you about the hair and eye problems you were experiencing. I confused that bug with one that causes crashes. My hair and eyes lock up too sometimes, but WAC didn't cause that one. By fiddling with the chargen process, I can get them working again. You might try clicking on the next race and then back to the one you're working with (might be difficult with all the new ones, I don't know...)

Well, I *am* tired! Profound apologies! But it was good meeting you, Maigrets, and I wasn't expecting an answer so fast...Tell you what, I'll pull my ID-10-T posts after you've read this... *weak & foolish grin...*
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Maigrets
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Well, I *am* tired! Profound apologies! But it was good meeting you, Maigrets, and I wasn't expecting an answer so fast...Tell you what, I'll pull my ID-10-T posts after you've read this... *weak & foolish grin...*
No need to do that. :grin: I know just how you feel at times...more than you might think. :P Also I log in at least once a day so if there's something I can help with I'll answer, otherwise I wait until an expert comes along. :think:

Re the vanilla races....I don't use any of them so I guess it's not as problem for me although I still get the eye bug in chargen, but as I said it's not a big deal to me.

I still don't know why you'd have problems with the freckled Breton textures though as the HGEC face textures work properly for all vanilla races. It may depend I suppose if the freckles are supposed to replace all Wood Elf faces though, but I can't see why it should. The only other option I can think of is to make a freckled Wood Elf, as a custom race and replace the vanilla Wood Elves, but that could lead to issues. Anything that makes the vanilla races look better though is a good thing IMHO. :)

WAC doesn't use any body or face texture replacers unless the skin is part of an armour or clothing set. Then you would see changes especially if using body replacers. The only main addition is facial hair and as mentioned in the WAC readme (somewhere) the races have been made playable so the beards etc show up properly and don't move around like a bad hair piece. :)
Some humans would do anything to see if it was possible to do it. If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on it sayingEnd Of The World Switch PLEASE DO NOT TOUCHthe paint wouldn't even have time to dry. Terry Pratchett
StormDrummer
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Madame is too kind..:) Prolly best to do it anyway, though...no sense letting people get wrong ideas, eh? (Case in point, Your Honor...)

Hokay, I think I've got that one fixed (load order, mostly...:p ) Only the new kid on the block is still streaky...I think I'll take a look at him in CS and see if I can find out what makes him tick...

I'm with you on improving the vanilla flavors, hence I've overhauled 'em all...Exnem's female, Robert's male...More Generic Faces Tweaked, Beautiful Races (though more for the enclosed Ohmes race than anything else, which I had to redo)...then custom body retexes for all and faces for some, and now I'm messing with hair mods and working on a compilation...I use basic Exnem, because my favorite tex is based on it, but I *think* it's interchangeable with HGEC, and I'd like to try some different meshes...


Face Exchange is another utility I know nothing about, though...I tend to be leery of 'em till I know whether they're complicated or not, and whether I'd be likely to have trouble getting them to work/figuring them out. I'd love to talk shop if you have the time and patience, perhaps in another venue...

As for making new races, I'm just getting to the point where I might be able to to that, and I think I may take a crack at it...I'd love to be able to have two Dark Elven races, f'rinstance...Dunmer and Ashlander, one with face tats and one without...

Now, do I understand you properly...if you turn off the playable on the new races, people have bad hair (or beard) days...? Might not be an issue for me, though, as I only use basic and Birds & Insects, and I haven't seen any suspicious characters with outlandish moustaches, acting shifty... ;)

And this is where I say it...I LOVE this mod!!!!
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Maigrets
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Face Exchange Lite is a good program to use if you have an old character, a companion or just an NPC face and you want to transfer the face. It keeps the facial geometry etc as well as eyes and hair details. It also bypasses that "showracemenu" bug with non default hair and a few other handy options. I like Wrye Bash for a lot of things, but sometimes I use Face Exchange Lite for a quick character swap.
Now, do I understand you properly...if you turn off the playable on the new races, people have bad hair (or beard) days...? Might not be an issue for me, though, as I only use basic and Birds & Insects, and I haven't seen any suspicious characters with outlandish moustaches, acting shifty... ;)
It wasn't me who said that, but having the races with beards and mo"s playable ensures the facial hair morphs to the face and doesn't appear to be floating in front of the face. Or so I understand it. If you were to use the Nords with Beards mod from Tesnexus you will find this issue will pop up. Have you ever seen the double face bug with companions? That's what I mean and having the race playable avoids that.

Making custom races is easy and here are links to a couple of tutorials. A lot depends though on resources you may want to use as well as whether or not you can create new models or texture yourself, if you want to go down that path of course.
http://sites.google.com/site/grimdeath9 ... ourownrace

More basic, but has the main important points.
http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/in ... n_tutorial

As far as the vanilla NPC's go, I've been playing this game on and off since release and I mostly avoid NPC's if possible for a number of reasons, including the generic all in one race voice acting and stupid comments, so I don't look at them too closely. Replacing them all with something more pleasing is more work than I'm prepared to do further than nicer textures and body models. As long as my characters look how I want, I'm happy enough.

Also, I prefer the diversity of NPC character faces (to a point) as in old and young, pretty or ugly etc. Everything beautified is unrealistic to me and ignoring the fact that people, even game NPC's are and should be different. That's why I'd never use one of the total race overhauls like the anime or Beautiful People mods. BP doesn't play well with others either and I imagine the same goes for the other makeovers without much tweaking and unnecessary work.

Any texture made for Exnem will work with HGEC meshes by the way. Even the more outlandish models which get HGEC a bad name and deservedly so in some cases. I use the EBE (Extra Buff Edition) version which is closer to Exnems original, muscular and athletic, but not bulky. Not that it matters depending on which clothing or armour is used, because the body shape changes anyway.
I'd love to talk shop if you have the time and patience, perhaps in another venue...
You're welcome to make another topic for other discussion or help where others can also contribute if you like. I have the time but no longer have the patience, and I prefer not to use PM or email any more for extended mod support, how to's or the like. The forum should be used for that kind of thing. I've been down the track of trying to help people with their game, even over days of PM's or emails, and been insulted for it (among other things) so I don't do it anymore except in a public venue.

Other things of concern to members or quick to sort out issues or enquiries are fine. Sorry, it's nothing personal. :)
Some humans would do anything to see if it was possible to do it. If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on it sayingEnd Of The World Switch PLEASE DO NOT TOUCHthe paint wouldn't even have time to dry. Terry Pratchett
StormDrummer
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Ja, I got the general idea behind Face Exchange...just not how complicated it would be to use...thanks for the tutorials. I've made no attempt to mess with NPCs, and if I did, any such attempts would be minimal...like getting rid of some of the sillier vanilla hairstyles, if possible. Oh, and if we could just get SOME kind of decent look for thE @#$%# Would Elves...! Other than that, too much work, no inclination, and I don't like everyone (or anyone) looking like airbrushed supermodels either.

I understand about your preferences...when I noticed you'd pulled your mods from PES, I feared that the community was losing another talented modder to abuse. I'm glad to see that was not the case, and for whatever it's worth, I apologize for all the jerks out there...thanks for all your help.

Well, as long as you're okay with the different directions we're heading in, I'm afraid I've had a new problem pop up...I gave male Nords a new body tex some time ago, and now it's being overwritten by the Imperial again. I tried saving the change to an esp, which is at the end of the load order...no good. CS shows it changed; in game it's not.This is frustrating...I've never had these problems before, and I can't imagine what's doing it....
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Maigrets
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Well, as long as you're okay with the different directions we're heading in, I'm afraid I've had a new problem pop up...I gave male Nords a new body tex some time ago, and now it's being overwritten by the Imperial again. I tried saving the change to an esp, which is at the end of the load order...no good. CS shows it changed; in game it's not.This is frustrating...I've never had these problems before, and I can't imagine what's doing it....
Me being OK with what you do in your game has no bearing or effect on me one way or the other. I don't get what you mean by "we're" heading in different directions. :-o A bit of an odd statement since I don't know you, you don't know me and we are both playing a single player game where we can customize it however we like. Unless you're under the mistaken impression I had anything to do with creating WAC....which I haven't.

As far as the Nord textures have you applied Archive Invalidation? By default, as you know all humans use the Imperial textures so an esp may be the only way to make it work, BUT by applying the texture paths to altered or renamed default meshes using Nifskope so they can't revert back.

That's about as much as I know about meshes and I don't do textures either so it's a guess really. It's what you would do for a custom race if you wanted totally different textures.
Ja, I got the general idea behind Face Exchange...just not how complicated it would be to use.
Face Exchange is easy compared to Wrye Bash and it's all explained in the Readme in steps. You only need a save and a few mouse clicks really....and possibly custom hair and eyes if required.


Offtopic.......but I pulled my mods from PES because of the ongoing GMods crap that you can read about in the Announcement on each forum section here and not being able to get an answer from PES about what they would do about bandwidth leeching and mod theft before I pulled my mods. I can only infer that they are perhaps going down the same track as GMods and other sites that want to be paid for using USER CREATED FREE content and we will be expected to pay for mods in the near future. I've never played or had the desire to play The Sims games, but they are an example I'd hate to see be mainstream. There's a lot more to the Gmods thing, but this isn't the place to continue discussing it.

Besides that, PES have an upload issue that looks like it's never going to be fixed. This affects people trying to upload, or in fact delete or update files which is mentioned several times in their forums, but last time I looked no-one had replied...ie staff or Admin, so I don't know if it ever got fixed. They used to have really good member support whenever I had to contact them.
Some humans would do anything to see if it was possible to do it. If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on it sayingEnd Of The World Switch PLEASE DO NOT TOUCHthe paint wouldn't even have time to dry. Terry Pratchett
StormDrummer
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Well, I wouldn't know...never uploaded a mod or interacted with them on that level...I've occasionally reported an issue, and they've responded well to that...seems they're moving to a new site soon...

Easy there, I only meant that since this is a site for Waalx-related issues, we're rather straying a bit off topic...just trying to respect the site's purpose, nothing more. And thank you for your help.
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Maigrets
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StormDrummer wrote:Well, I wouldn't know...never uploaded a mod or interacted with them on that level...I've occasionally reported an issue, and they've responded well to that...seems they're moving to a new site soon...

Easy there, I only meant that since this is a site for Waalx-related issues, we're rather straying a bit off topic...just trying to respect the site's purpose, nothing more. And thank you for your help.
The off topic was started several posts back when you mentioned body and face textures and the problems you're having, which has nothing to do with the title of this thread and the OP's question.

That's fine, but I did suggest you could create your own topic re your texture problems where someone more knowledgeable might see it and could perhaps help, but you chose not to bother so let's not tell me to go easy. If I appear to have taken some things too personally then I apologize, but that's how a few of your comments have come across to me.

This site is not only for WAC related issues btw. In the General Discussion area one can make a topic about almost anything from music preferences, other games discussion, to a general rant thread, (anything NOT related to WAC or Realswords) which I'm seriously thinking about starting. Whether or not other changes will be made will depend on how active the forum remains in the future after the forthcoming WAC update.
Some humans would do anything to see if it was possible to do it. If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on it sayingEnd Of The World Switch PLEASE DO NOT TOUCHthe paint wouldn't even have time to dry. Terry Pratchett
brucek2
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I'm having a slightly different character creation issue, that is perhaps related to this one. To reproduce it:

1. Load both WAC and OWC (OWC adds a bunch of playable races.)
2. Start new game
3. At the character creation screen, click on Imperial to get the race selection dialog.
4. Begin clicking on the right side of the Race button to cycle through the races.

The cycling works fine for the first few races: Keb-Queni, Khajilt, Matzken, Moon Elf, Na'vi. But then you get to Nord. The first clue something has gone wrong is that the Nord is drawn an out-of-place looking mustache. And from that point on, each subsequent click of the Race button will no longer choose a new race, but will instead advance the facial hair. So the other races are not selectable.

I reproduced this with every reasonable load order I could think of between the various OWC and WAC components. It is not reproducible with just OWC alone and not WAC.

I can create the character I want using just OWC, saving it, then loading WAC too and resuming from there. I'm not sure if this will cause problems down the line though.
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Maigrets
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That's normal or I should say, it's for a reason. :) The NPC's in the game with facial hair have been made as playable races because otherwise the beards don't sit on the face correctly and you get a bug like the double face issue that used to affect companions. Believe me it looks ugly if you haven't seen it.

You just have to click through the faces of the same races with different facial hair. It seems like a lot, but if you're not making new characters very often it's not a big deal IMHO. I have other mods that add playable races so I get to click through even more....lol.
I can create the character I want using just OWC, saving it, then loading WAC too and resuming from there. I'm not sure if this will cause problems down the line though.
That shouldn't cause any problem at all because you can use the "showracemenu" anytime during the game to make changes if you want to, so it's more or less doing the same thing.
Some humans would do anything to see if it was possible to do it. If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on it sayingEnd Of The World Switch PLEASE DO NOT TOUCHthe paint wouldn't even have time to dry. Terry Pratchett
brucek2
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Thanks for the reassurance Maigrets. I had been worried that if I found this first issue straight off, imagine how many more must be to come. But I will now not let this dissuade me from continuing.

I'm looking forward to seeing what happens when I escape the sewers.
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