WAC Beta v0.1 - Downloads, comments, suggestions

[Krimsyn Kane]

A solution I was thinking about this was that the armors could be scripted to become an encumbrance if you are too weak for them. You would still be able to use them, but it would weight a lot more on you or something like that. Like ok you're at level 1 and want to wear an ebony cuirass. You can, but your encumbrance would be almost full in that case. that would permit it without making it too easy. You would then start as a 'real life' knight, who with an armor on, can't carry much else. When you get better, you kind of adapt to wearing an armor and it leave you more room to act, until it become just a normal item. just an idea though...

I think that's a good idea, would add some more immersion to the game.

[Echonite]

Eww.... the games whole encomberance system is majorly flawed as it is... I mean, its supposed to be in pounds, but have you ever seen a 20+ pound weapon? who could hold a 50lb sword in one hand? its insane... not to mention its a pain in the ass as it is trying to cary things. As it is, I can barly carry a single set of equipment. I say do nothing to the encomberance to make it more difficult.

[Krigulv]

yeah, vanilla has a pretty crummy encumbrance system. i especially hate the whole, once you're a single pound overweight, you're completely immobilized.

[Waalx]

Eww.... the games whole encomberance system is majorly flawed as it is... I mean, its supposed to be in pounds, but have you ever seen a 20+ pound weapon? who could hold a 50lb sword in one hand? its insane... not to mention its a pain in the ass as it is trying to cary things. As it is, I can barly carry a single set of equipment. I say do nothing to the encomberance to make it more difficult.

from the CS:

SEGoldenSaintArmorReward6Daedric + 126 in weight.
Dremora6ValkynazRobe = 90!

I know that very well..that's why all the RealSwords release where made with realistic weight in mind (if you think in pounds). Although I had a slew of people telling me how it was not correct. And well actually I think no one know what is the measure of this quantity, but it's not pounds obviously.

SEAmberMagicHammer5 = 95

magic hammer, and it weight half your weight? It can't be in pounds..

Did you notice how the smiths in vanilla are sloppy?? A good smith make his best weapons to be balanced, not heavier!



but you know, it could work perfect almost as it is now if I unlocked the list because of the big weight on items. You get in full ebony at level one, you'll not be able to carry much more.

I need to think about this. It wouldn't work for the highest light armors, but all the best heavy armors would still work with that system of heavy weight. it would hinder you without the need of a script. your low level would be nearly fully encumbered in the best suits.

the other idea is I would have them so that wearing an armor would lower you magicka too. So real mages wouldn't use armors at all unless its a battlemage cuirass than can channel magic through its own magic. Something that regular armor would hinder, and muffle. Like if you shield yourself to the world, the magic cannot flow through you, and is greatly diminished.

On the battle-mage cuirass. I had that idea to make each robes of each discipline able to conjure the armor in combat. I think I made one in the color of each school, and in some case sleeveless and with sleeves. I could do two models, one for the mage robes, and one for the master robes, and when you have either one you get a spell to conjure your armor if you need it (like in great battles). if you walk around you'll be back in your regular robes. Or like won't conjure the armor for killing a rat! (maybe for a King-rat! ). Since that armor is part of your robe, the spell would be easy, and cheap. yet another wall, to create bound item you need a special slot in the game engine. There's not enough to accommodate all the robes I have.

I have an idea for my robes, and where they come from. Don't know if I will do it or not, but it would be funny

in my opinion the idea of 'muffling' magic if in armors would make it a lot more interesting and also keep your fighter character to be an archmage in armor that is as powerful in magick than with his blade. Would bring some limitation, and sometimes it make things better.

the better your armor the worst your mana will be touched. light armor would affect it less.

yeah, vanilla has a pretty crummy encumbrance system. i especially hate the whole, once you're a single pound overweight, you're completely immobilized.

A weight lifter will stall with a pound more, so it's not that unrealistic, but I agree it does feel weird. Speed loss should be more gradual like start to make a difference in your speed at 80% capacity, and will stall you at 100%.

[Haruko]

I had an amulate on (it's a cheat, just to warn you) 120% reflect damage and magic... a bandit killed me! O.o I'm not even sure how it happened, all I know is suddenly I was dead . Still having that sound issue, going to test out your quiet feet and see if it does anything. All other things I'm not having an issue with, just a few small things like icons for equipment, I do notice that if I get a bandit down to low health, it tends to run away, usually in a circle though.

Edit: there seems to be no female textures for your bandit armors, with some of them it's kinda rational to not have a different one because they are so bulky it could just be that you can't make out detail, but try equipping a femail with the "Bandit Belt" iirc. Small thing, just thought I'd mention it.

I don't know what happenned to the bandit killing you with your amulet on. I just know that I didn't touch the bandit power or AI, just their clothes. Running away in circle that the second time I hear this..

no idea about your sound issue. that's quite weird.

The bandit females, some don't have a textures, it's made like that to limit the number of different maps. Actually, only the bandit fur cuirass use the same textures, and one type of greaves (those alike the vanilla Iron greaves). For the fur model, it's because the style of the original female cuirass of vanilla look completely off if I want to add belt stuff and daggers. Models are different from male or females though. The thief greaves are like in vanilla where they both use the same map. Other than that the females have their own texture for iron cuirass, and bronze and such.

I'll keep working on this, to try and figure it out. I saw the metal armors, and they do have a unique appearence for females, so that's something worth noting /grin. I'll have to figure out what to do with the sound, it's got to be some sort of error that's popping up, I'll put some time into that as well.

[Divine Avenger]

Wow Waalx I am super impressed this a great work you have here and I can't even imagine how many hours are clocked in. First off thank you for your work. So my original Oblivion install is full of everything and I mean everything as I really only play for screen shots and some character modding now.

I have only really played the game once through when it was 1st released and yes it was mostly vanilla o_o <gasp> I have never tried OOO or FCOM or mods of that nature. So what I did was made a second Oblivion install on the same drive but just renaming the the save game folder and the Oblivion folder so I can switch back between the two. Exported the load list from OBMM to import later. So I am happy to say I just have your mod loaded Oh and I defragged just for you So I didn't have any studder really to note. BTW I have an older system Ati x1950xtx 512mb and an ancient single core AMD 3700+ although I was able to overclock it from 2.2 to 2.8

So I started off gathering your stuff outside the sewer exit and boy do I love those speed boots perfect for getting around. I went straight to the Oblivi gate Hiricine's realm and noticed a battle going on Fire Fears chasing a wolf and then some Moose cows joining the battle. The red eyes were very creepy good. It seemed like the Moose Cow made the rat sound? I am not positive but that is what I think I heard

Then later on a nice Unicorn vs Mufflon battle and to my shock the Mufflon won but maybe there were more mufflons previously in the battle so OK.
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/139/ ... 460xi7.jpg

Then later coming over a hill a Gemsbock went down for no apparent reason almost like an Archer had nailed him from a distance OK I couldn't figure out what had killed him but I was happy no need to lose some charges from my weapon and best of all free meat

Seeing those little armless wonders running around was so cool made the world feel alive but the best part is how some are passive - what a nice effect. I even had a battle where one of the Fear creatures health got low and he ran off just before he was killed - how cool!

Killer bunnies FTW! Very creepy....
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/2149 ... 161pk4.jpg

I had to tgm for the Fear King though I know
But whoah what a silhouette in fact seeing all the new creatures against the sky is amazing.
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/4391 ... 569ri6.jpg

Found me a horse well a few of them.
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4170 ... 266hd5.jpg

But in his attempt to join back up with his horse mates he took a bad shortcut.
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/388/ ... 384mz0.jpg

Couple little guys got stuck when I left the gate. I liked the poison from the dark ones nice to add to a blade to slow some creatures down.
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/1879 ... 594al9.jpg

OMG the red roadrunners dashing about so cool every creature wanted to gobble them up. Nice bear running by trying to catch one From a distance I saw a gargoyle shooting some lighting spells and flying around trying to catch one. I really dug how high the gargs could fly and their speed was a rush.

Dive bomber!
http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/2364 ... 563hf7.jpg

Traveling next to the shore seeing all those little arm less creatures reminded me of Jurassic Park Then I saw this small beautiful blue sea crab and I just followed him around for a bit.

Well I met the Hill Giant and I got pounded into the ground. But I must say I enjoyed it If he would have asked for a safe passage fee I would have paid it! One of the coolest looking giants ever IMO!
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/766/ ... 073ub9.jpg

That was my 1st trip as I am going back in. So far no major errors to report.

BTW thinking about making a Rhino mount and a Sabre tooth mount What about a warg or a Hyenadon.....

Is it ok to post scrrenshots on bethsoft or is this all undercover for now?

[Forgotten]

Had a quick look at the meshes and noticed some minor issues with a couple of the creature meshes.

"Wac_dogspotted_body.nif", "wac_dogyellow_body.nif", "wac_dogspotted_bodynotail.nif" all have seethrough holes where their front legs meet the main body.

The fat ogre head mesh and body mesh have a rather noticeable seam at the neck where they're supposed to meet.

I also think that a more furry, detailed normal map for those cats that supposedly have thicker fur, i.e. the lynx, sabertooth tigers (maybe) and tigers would probably make them look even better. (Love the sabertooths by the way. Lore friendly AND cool.)

Also, and I haven't experimented with this myself, but it might be possible (if you're going to incorporate the LCE gargoyle skeleton) to change the material type (now "HAV_MAT_SKIN") for the gargoyle skeleton havok sections to "HAV_MAT_HEAVY_STONE". That way the gargoyles *SHOULD* (probably, but I haven't had time to test it) sound like they're made out of stone when they drop down to the floor/ground dead. An extra little touch that would make them seem all the more realistic.

Also, the mage bracers', gauntlets' and gloves' havok are set to "HAV_MAT_METAL" rather than "HAV_MAT_CLOTH" making them sound like they're made out of solid metal rather than leather when they're dropped to the ground.

Cheers, UQF

[Mormacil]

Eww.... the games whole encomberance system is majorly flawed as it is... I
the other idea is I would have them so that wearing an armor would lower you magicka too. So real mages wouldn't use armors at all unless its a battlemage cuirass than can channel magic through its own magic. Something that regular armor would hinder, and muffle. Like if you shield yourself to the world, the magic cannot flow through you, and is greatly diminished.

Oblivion already limites your spell effectiveness when wearing armor, even at masterlevel iirc.

[trollf]

tent and palisade like each other much in one of the camps ;]


clipping:

[StarX]

I wouldn't mess with the encumbrance to much. There are already excellent mods like Real Fatique out there that give penalties to the player when heavy encumbered.

[Mormacil]

Suggestion:
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19353

[running4cover]

Eww.... the games whole encomberance system is majorly flawed as it is... I mean, its supposed to be in pounds, but have you ever seen a 20+ pound weapon? who could hold a 50lb sword in one hand? its insane... not to mention its a pain in the ass as it is trying to cary things. As it is, I can barly carry a single set of equipment. I say do nothing to the encomberance to make it more difficult.

from the CS:

SEGoldenSaintArmorReward6Daedric + 126 in weight.
Dremora6ValkynazRobe = 90!

I know that very well..that's why all the RealSwords release where made with realistic weight in mind (if you think in pounds). Although I had a slew of people telling me how it was not correct. And well actually I think no one know what is the measure of this quantity, but it's not pounds obviously.

SEAmberMagicHammer5 = 95

magic hammer, and it weight half your weight? It can't be in pounds..

Did you notice how the smiths in vanilla are sloppy?? A good smith make his best weapons to be balanced, not heavier!



but you know, it could work perfect almost as it is now if I unlocked the list because of the big weight on items. You get in full ebony at level one, you'll not be able to carry much more.

I need to think about this. It wouldn't work for the highest light armors, but all the best heavy armors would still work with that system of heavy weight. it would hinder you without the need of a script. your low level would be nearly fully encumbered in the best suits.

the other idea is I would have them so that wearing an armor would lower you magicka too. So real mages wouldn't use armors at all unless its a battlemage cuirass than can channel magic through its own magic. Something that regular armor would hinder, and muffle. Like if you shield yourself to the world, the magic cannot flow through you, and is greatly diminished.

On the battle-mage cuirass. I had that idea to make each robes of each discipline able to conjure the armor in combat. I think I made one in the color of each school, and in some case sleeveless and with sleeves. I could do two models, one for the mage robes, and one for the master robes, and when you have either one you get a spell to conjure your armor if you need it (like in great battles). if you walk around you'll be back in your regular robes. Or like won't conjure the armor for killing a rat! (maybe for a King-rat! ). Since that armor is part of your robe, the spell would be easy, and cheap. yet another wall, to create bound item you need a special slot in the game engine. There's not enough to accommodate all the robes I have.

I have an idea for my robes, and where they come from. Don't know if I will do it or not, but it would be funny

in my opinion the idea of 'muffling' magic if in armors would make it a lot more interesting and also keep your fighter character to be an archmage in armor that is as powerful in magick than with his blade. Would bring some limitation, and sometimes it make things better.

the better your armor the worst your mana will be touched. light armor would affect it less.

yeah, vanilla has a pretty crummy encumbrance system. i especially hate the whole, once you're a single pound overweight, you're completely immobilized.

A weight lifter will stall with a pound more, so it's not that unrealistic, but I agree it does feel weird. Speed loss should be more gradual like start to make a difference in your speed at 80% capacity, and will stall you at 100%.

Someone on the BGSforums came up with some whole weight/size fornula that actually made sense (like, where the size and shape of the item effected it and all). It actually restored my faith in the system.

Anyway, on to review-and-stuff, a few things that I sorta disliked:
1) One of the armors outside the prison sewers that didn't add sleeves (the one with highest AR) added tattoes. I like the idea of tattoes in the game, but I didn't like how this looked.

2) There are two new races at character creation (a new breton and some kind of witch), are those going to be in the public release? If so you would have to incorperate them well enough to seem seamless with the other 10 races.

3) I really dislike the hanging corpses and stuff around (I may have mentioned before). Will you make it possible (through a plugin or otherwise) to remove these?

No matter what happens with those things, though, I still love WAC ;-)

[Waalx]

OK I was kind stalled on updating the mod as dev_akm was working on porting what he made for FCOM - RealSwords, so it would work in WAC.

I got the new files today, so I'm going to check all that, and the next update v0.05, risk being another big download. Hopefully by the week-end's end, or before.

it's possible that some of you don't run RealSwords, at all, or just have some of it so far. That new patch will need you to have everything of it. As it's the preAlpha, I'm kind forced to keep things simple, so let's see. SO all of RealSwords will be in it. (RealSwords is optional, but as it makes change to various NPC that WAC - WWW.esp (robes & armors) can change as well...the two will probably be merged into one.)

I also got some plugs dev_akm did to have RealSwords run with OOO and MMM, not sure about those yet though.

Sorry I'm not answering the last posts at this time, I will a bit later. Much to test!

see ya!

[Haruko]

Looking forward to it Waalx, can't wait for it now that everything has started rolling I still can't figure out that mystery sound that keeps popping up... also I noticed that some creatures are attacking me on sight, and others I can walk right up to (lvl 5 character) like some of the ogres just ignore me, as well as some of the wildlife, while others dive right into attacking.

[Krigulv]

i have a suggestion for all those lil fear running around.
i like that they provide poison, but after a bit, it seems kinda silly that they actually drop bottles of poison. what about changing those into little (ingredient) glands?

[Waalx]

it's not poison but venom that the beast drops.

Poison is the second step, that only poisoners will be able to provide you with.

Not a bad idea with glands though, but the bottels for poisons and venom are all done.

[Conker343qc]

Hey Waalx !

I've played about an hour and an half and i've walked the road from Leyawiin to Cheydinhal and here's my report :
Near Blankenmarch, there are Equs Horses, right ? Personnaly, i'm finding it weird that you can just walk to these horses that seems very rare and wild and ride them like nothing never happened ... maybe you could apply the same AI as the horses that roam near the Lake Rumare and flee when you come to them in vanilla, near Sardavar Leed . Also, imo, they should be in the wilderness and not near the road... . Also, i spotted the gibbet you put at the eastern exit of leyawiin, and there's a missing texture for the eyes, you know the one with the blue dress ? Maybe it's the shivering isles thing again, i didn't install it yet. I killed my first Warg today, and when i spotted it and it ran towards me, my pants were wet... damn it scared me. Great result on that one ! I also discovered the Gemsboks... They are very beautiful but i think that they should also be further away in the wilderness and not on the road, it's kinda weird. On the roads , there should be only lowlifes as squirrels and rats , and animals like Wolfs and Fox, nothing big or legendary... It breaks the immersion a little, imo. A last thing, the gibbet of Blankenmarch, the guy seems to much alive, but he doesn't move, maybe you could put a decayed corpse (ex : zombie) instead of an npc corpse...or adjust the way he stands, maybe more like if he fell to his knees of something...

That's it for today ! Every day, this overhaul comes closer to perfection ! Great work Guys, continue to support our friend that makes this great work !

P.S : i found a bug , but it's probably not cuz of WAC, doesn't know what does it ... link : http://s532.photobucket.com/albums/ee32 ... -49-09.jpg

P.S.S : Here's the Blankenmarch gibbet that i find weird ... http://s532.photobucket.com/albums/ee32 ... -00-34.jpg

[Sethsryt]

I know how you hate body mods.
And already afraid before posting that you wouldn't like it.
I do not have body mods for perfect c-cup, just for a more realistic looking body.
I was just hoping it would be easy to fix, it's not about the armor.
Please don't be mad. It's hard for someone liking both Waalx and body mods.
Though there are too many kinds of body mods. Which is mostly because of the breasts, sadly.
But Roberts has some pretty fine body models, like he concentrates on feet, I like feet.

I really hope the scarves could be a bit more wider though, just a pixel or two, so my character's nose would fit in. >.<

About the level list, I was just thinking about adding some custom armor.
Instead of losing all that armor with going from Francesco's to Waalx, I would be able to pick out some of the armor of Francesco or other armors or weapons of course.

Well I'll be off for some more testing.

PS: if you are redoing the whole leveled list and such. Those conjurers, no matter how well you are with sneak, they seem to automatically find you if they summon their "pets". Odd ain't it? Though not really Wac related, more like Vanilla related. =p Ah well, I'll be watching this forum for some updates. Good luck.

[Conker343qc]

PS: if you are redoing the whole leveled list and such. Those conjurers, no matter how well you are with sneak, they seem to automatically find you if they summon their "pets". Odd ain't it? Though not really Wac related, more like Vanilla related. =p Ah well, I'll be watching this forum for some updates. Good luck.

I ABSOLUTELY AGREE ! even mods as Stealth overhaul doesn't fix that stupid bug ... Any idea guys ???

[Vacuity]

Two things with this post:

1) Apologies to Waalx: I am suffering some hardware issues atm and so have barely touched more than the surface of WAC. Development of my own mod is essentially on hold as well until I get this sorted out. I really wish I could be more use and I am very envious of the people who are actually getting to *do* things in WAC.

2) I am curious about the, how shall we say? overall (should I say "Overhaul"?) direction of WAC. I am sure I am not the only one curious about the bigger picture here. I haven't been a member of these forums fror long, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, so probably I'm not the only one who doesn't really know where WAC is going.

What you have and may be aiming for as far as I can see:

i) New creatures - many, varied, new spawnpoints are found almost entirely in the worldspace and new cells only. Creatures added to the leveled lists are found anywhere the lists are used.

ii) New equipment - many, varied, integrated into leveled lists.

iii) New worldspaces - One, Hircine's Realm. Are there likely to be more of these? I am particularly interested in more random oblivion realms (in fact I've already started working in this area myself, but I found I at landscaping)

iv) New one-off (story) quests - None at present that I can see, but from comments made by yourself it would seem that you *do* intend to include some. Are you looking for ideas or are you more in need of help implementing the ideas you have?

v) New repeatable (task) quests - You stated you want to implement butchers and poisoners. Sounds great to me. Anything else along these lines? Are you looking for ideas or are you more in need of help making them?

vi) New NPC faction - Wood witches. What (if any) is the larger view for this faction? Just another faction of baddies? Are there going to be any quests/stories about this faction?

vii) New decoration/beautification - Gibbets and suchlike. Personally I love them.

viii) Leveling - Currently WAC seems to be using the "vanilla" levelling style where the world changes with the player's level rising.

I suppose I am really curious whether you are heading in more of an OOO "Quests and mechanic changes"-direction or an MMM "Extra monsters and general content"-direction, or if you're really striking off in a whole new direction altogether. For the benefit of those of us who don't really know much about your ideas on these things, could you take a couple of minutes to tell us?

I think dev_akm is going to have to start a new project called FCWOM one way or another though...

Thanks for your time,

Vac