WAC Beta v0.1 - Downloads, comments, suggestions

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hatsutoli
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English is not my native language so please don't be too strict to my grammer.

Sorry for lack of replies for such a long time...(I can't remembered how long :-o )

I found few Incompatibles when testing with Unique Landscapes, but all of them can be fixed by simply change the load order so I didn't care so much.

But something I really care is about the difficulty of combat some "cool" new creatures. The word "cool" is highlighted because they look really cool enough, but can be killed by only few strikes in "NORMAL" difficulty. Take a example for Xivilai lords on the top of Sigil tower: Men! They looks really tough for me, no lesser than barlogs in MMM, but my lvl 50 knight kill those things with no more than 5 shots, with only an Ebony Claymore? I personal expect more challenges when combating with those cool new creatures. Is there anyone else who had the same feeling as me?

Another example, one day my knight and his beautiful female companion swim around the lake of IC, and suddenly two sharks appeared and approached fast toward us. "Wow! Sharks!" Just at the same time when my surprising voice out, my character's girl friend already killed those sharks, one shot per one shark... "Come on! I fought slaughterfish more fearsome than you"... :lol: I don't know how you guys think but the difficulty really need to be arised for me but I just don't want to change the ingame difficulty setting everytime when I think the enemy should be worthy of epic battle.

Just some personal view, offense to no one. Waalx surely did one of the very great jobs I've ever seen in the modding community. :D
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Mormacil
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Level 50 is insane :P I never exceed level 30 with any character. And with WAC not being levelled you can't expect people to level to 50... But I agree balancing is still off but taht can only be fixed with lots of playtesting.
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hatsutoli wrote:English is not my native language so please don't be too strict to my grammer.

Sorry for lack of replies for such a long time...(I can't remembered how long :-o )

I found few Incompatibles when testing with Unique Landscapes, but all of them can be fixed by simply change the load order so I didn't care so much.

But something I really care is about the difficulty of combat some "cool" new creatures. The word "cool" is highlighted because they look really cool enough, but can be killed by only few strikes in "NORMAL" difficulty. Take a example for Xivilai lords on the top of Sigil tower: Men! They looks really tough for me, no lesser than barlogs in MMM, but my lvl 50 knight kill those things with no more than 5 shots, with only an Ebony Claymore? I personal expect more challenges when combating with those cool new creatures. Is there anyone else who had the same feeling as me?

Another example, one day my knight and his beautiful female companion swim around the lake of IC, and suddenly two sharks appeared and approached fast toward us. "Wow! Sharks!" Just at the same time when my surprising voice out, my character's girl friend already killed those sharks, one shot per one shark... "Come on! I fought slaughterfish more fearsome than you"... :lol: I don't know how you guys think but the difficulty really need to be arised for me but I just don't want to change the ingame difficulty setting everytime when I think the enemy should be worthy of epic battle.

Just some personal view, offense to no one. Waalx surely did one of the very great jobs I've ever seen in the modding community. :D
Waalx won't be offended, trust me. A lot of creatures (and factions) still need to be balanced out. All the sharks for example have the same stats as slaughterfish. Everything will be taken care of in the end.
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Krigulv
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i like how that middle scarecrow has a rainbow burstin out his neck :P
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Conker343qc
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Ok i want to place my opinion about damage , lol !

Suggestions : First i hate to bash someone or something 50 times or so in the chest to kill him... seems like your hacking at rubber or something that justs absorbs your hit. Personnaly, i would say : For the lesser enemies , add multiplied spawns (like a pack of wolves instead of one) or a squad of 3 or 4 lesser dremoras (for the Churl, in example ) , and Markynaz should be alone, and not everywhere in the towers, the more you go up, the more it increases in rank (for oblivion citadels, in example) . I think it's not too hard to do because most of the spawns (as i understand it) will be fix spawns, not leveled ones. I also prefer an enemy that does bigger damage and block more often ( like 3/4 of the time, it's blocking or moving back and forth, etc. (I don't know if those factors are tuneable in the A.I . ) and that his health is lower . To me , even if it's a markynaz and that it got deadric stuff , i think that 4 or 5 hits of a sword like the Dragonclaw in the chest should take him down (maybe i should try locational damage, lol) . For the big beasts , like giants , it's ok to have them very solid, but for an npc , even a deadric one, it's not desirable, IMO. For the beast, it think it depends only of the size. The lions are fun to fight by my standards, fast, agile, move often, but not overpowerly solid (opinion based on the vanilla mountain lion) .

That's it for me now ! Good evening guys
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Mormacil wrote:
@nemetoad: Where did you read this will not be a modders resource when it's done":S
Waalx wrote:the other creatures overhauls just won't be authorized to add anything from WAC. WAC is a new thing with new stuff. if all my best stuff is just used to beef-up an already too fat beef I'm working for nothing on my overhaul like an idiot and I don't want that.

Last December I was saying this would be a free resources stuff. Not anymore. Not now that it's about ALL I do in modding.

Now that is changed, and the overhaul I'm working on (WAC) shall not be dissected by other overhauls. Bridges can be made, plugs that ensure the full compatibility, but you won't see smurfs in MMM or my new lions in MMM either.

MMM is 3 years old with enough content from all over the place. WAC is just being born, and that with all new content not seen anywhere else and from the same source. I don't want that to be lost over. My work in an entity, I think a lot about it. It should stay whole.

WAC resources can be used from the master by anyone like Oblivion.esm. For anything that need more than a handful, this is the only way to go. You can't re-distribute the whole of WAC.

If you want to make say a small mod with a few creatures only, use a corpse, or something then no problem. For big things, it's another question. WAC can be bridged to work with other overhauls. It can only be added to FCOM as an overhaul as well. Anything less make my work pass for not even worthy of full consideration. And if that is so, then screw it. Keep FCOM without it then. WAC RealSwords is going to overshadow FCOM RealSwords greatly anyway.

WAC has some unique creatures. Smurfs, Greenies, Dead Lords, bandit armors, the 8th gate, Hircine,... and all the stuff you now try, or will soon try If all that unique stuff is just used and dumped into another previous mod like MMM, it's killing me.
If I wanted to beef up MMM I would have released the stuff as I was doing it. Martigen isn't doing his mod anymore. His idea/plan was different from mine, and it should show. Martigen isn't even on the freaking mod anymore, it's a continuation of his initial idea.. MMM should be closed and put into a final version.

I want my bandits armors, my Dead Knights, to be something you won't get in another overhaul. You get Hill Giants in both MMM and in WAC. You get many stuff that look different in both. And to be honest, it's not my problem if many of my stuff make MMM stuff look crappy, it's my advantage! I have 30 something different cat species that DO look different. not recolors of the same model. If that is taken away for the benefit of an old mod, what the point? I ask not.

The process of creating WAC went much much bigger than what I expected. So the (my) expectations about it also changed.

.

Let the new stuff stand a chance on it's own.

That's my position.

It will probably piss-off some peoples, and I can already hear the yelling about the fact I withdraw some cards, yet I do it for a reason. And now you (all) know.
I wrote that yesterday in the previous page.
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Mormacil
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Oh I really missed that... :sorry: Can't blame you :P How about the usage in big mods like Silgrad Tower or TES4: Skyrim?

edit: btw still updating on EC ;)
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nemetoad
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I think that'd be an issue that'd be tackle later >_> This is a work-in-progress still afterall, right?

Waalx, with all these now varying ogres, imps, trolls, etc is there going to be a variation in their drops eventually as well? I've noticed you've done this with several of the demonic red-eyed wildlife in Hircine's Realm, but not so much with the expanded vanilla things. I take more variations are to come with them? D:
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Waalx
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Conker343qc wrote:Yayz !!!

Quests + Waalx = awesomeness . For once in my Tamrielic life, i will feel that i'm being pursued ... (i've never been a criminal in tamriel, anyway, the DB is boring. go there , kill him, money = fail) lol . That's the kind of thing that's missing , even in big quests mods...something always there , and something consistent yet changing . I downloaded Fighter's guild contracts (btw it's awesome for immersionists) and it adds something constant, but it feels repetitive after a time... Good to hear you launched yourself in questing !
er yeah. I actually wrote the outline of the 3 quests. They are not implemented yet. The assets aren't finished either. I had the generic Dead Knight and Dead Squire set-up now though.

Knight and Squires both use custom list to get dressed on the fly with their armors (parts), helms, heads, and weapons.

So having a group of knight and squires is never looking exactly the same.

Next is creating the number of lords I decided upon, and their unique swords.

After the quest making will begin.

Krimsyn Kane is already onto creating some new undead voices sounds.. :)


nemetoad wrote:- the downfall of these is it slightly irks me that these items have few custom icons on the menu. a minor issue, I understand, but I hope you make some for them.
well the bandit armors and stuff, many are in the Alpha from the time I just did them, so that's qhy, and also the bandits you have now aren't final, trhat's why I made almost no icon yet, I was waiting to have the final armors made not to do the icons two times... :)
- Those armless things run FAST. holy crap, those things are hard to keep up with. It's nice to see things like that, and all the other wildlife running about too. Loving that feeling I'm getting from the wildlife in this mod. It brings back a bit of the feeling that Morrowind gave me with its creatures: wild and unique, but oh so... fitting. Again, cannot wait to explore more.




Roadrunners are faster I think. Even with the 7 leagues Boots on I have a hard time running after them and keeping up all the way if they go straight for long. (a blue Roadrunner now run in my version here :P ).

- the scenery of hanged men is sweet, but sometimes feels a bit out of place. Like, the hanged man on Anvil Docks. While it does send a message, wouldn't it be best to put that a bit farther down the coast than right next to a tavern? You'd want to warn the people before they get in dock. Sides, think of the tourists
Tourist in a dark age? It does feel out of place for us, but in the old days - and not so old at that as gibbeting was still going 200 years ago in our 'civilized' world, in the old days the public executions where made for the people to see them, and be afraid and aware of this threat. There was corpses and filth in ancient time everywhere. They was used to that, we are not.
- In Hircine's Realm, the 'beach' areas that meet up with lava seem like a direct cut off if you use Real Lava or other mods that reskin the nasty red stuff of burnnating death. Perhaps it might be a good idea to detail these areas a bit with a few rocks or scorched earth or something?
I need to smooth a couple of landscape spot indeed. this will be arranged.
- I ran into a Fire Fear right next to Anvil's docks, and mr. guard there decided to chase after it. While I understand it's normal for speedy fear there to outrun and outwit the guard there... well, watching a guard run back and forth, forgetting now and again that he's chasing something, sort of ruins the atmosphere of a guarded city wall >_> maybe it might be a good idea to adjust spawning areas for those things to be a bit farther away?
I will check the spawn near anvil.
Since you're no longer making this free source, will you be making an exception for modders to adjust the meshes to the other body mods, or does it still stand for that?
this will mean a lot of work for the person who will do that. If that is made I would include the option.
Also, I am curious on how the Hircine realm gates are going to work in the final release. Are you going to worm it so those gates can exist at the same time as gates to the Deadlands? It'd be interesting to see two gates opening up in the same plains or something and having the forces of Mehrunes and Hircine fight over the petty mortals inbetween. Of course, I lack knowledge in CES and whatnot so I have no idea how possible that'd be.
other regions will be added to the realm later, I want a desertic region, and a jungle too. For now in 8th Gate, you can enter the realm by the south or north. South being a bit like a swamp, And in north are the Barren Isles. So desert will be east, and jungle west maybe. When all four will be done, you will appear in 8th gate in 4 different possible locations that don't look the same. And make your way to Hircine in the middle (or at the end of the swamp).

hatsutoli wrote:English is not my native language so please don't be too strict to my grammer.
I accept no excuses about that, I'm not even English myself! Don't worry, you're better than others.
Sorry for lack of replies for such a long time...(I can't remembered how long )
no problems either.
I found few Incompatibles when testing with Unique Landscapes, but all of them can be fixed by simply change the load order so I didn't care so much.
this will probably be checked once the mod is released.
But something I really care is about the difficulty of combat some "cool" new creatures.....Is there anyone else who had the same feeling as me?
Me? Many beasts aren't balanced at all. :) I named that release PRE Alpha, because it's not all it should be.

Difficulty is going to be fixed.
Conker343qc wrote:Suggestions : First i hate to bash someone or something 50 times or so in the chest to kill him...
same here. that's what balance will be about.
Mormacil wrote:How about the usage in big mods like Silgrad Tower or TES4: Skyrim?
Those don't touch Cyrodiil right? And they would not take all of WAC in those either.

I don't want my mod stuff to go into another mod that do the same thing. like MMM. If it's for new worlds, I said the resources can be used.
Although the rule still stand that we speak of a fraction of the WAC content only, not taking all the content and redistribute it under a different name. That's no. Only me will do this, until I'm done, bored or dead.

Yet I made a clean master for this. the master can be used to built other things by anyone, and to limit the need of having to repackage the content over and over. If I remain the master of the content then all people get the same releases on this content. If someone use something, name it differently, re-upload it somewhere else, and I change it later to something else ( a better version obviously), not all other instances would get the changes, and this would need every other mod authors to re-upload it in their releases.

I worked to prevent this. Waalx animals & Creatures.esm is a library file. On it's own it does nothing. Adding an esp to it would be easier in most situations, than to recreate the references a second time.. Beside if the other modder want to change a beast stats or anything, he make a new reference in his esp based on the master content, and nothing will ever conflict even with WAC esp.
nemetoad wrote:Waalx, with all these now varying ogres, imps, trolls, etc is there going to be a variation in their drops eventually as well? I've noticed you've done this with several of the demonic red-eyed wildlife in Hircine's Realm, but not so much with the expanded vanilla things. I take more variations are to come with them? D:

many loot stuff is missing in that last release. hopefully the next should fix all of this.. :)
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nemetoad
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Ahhh gotcha there. I figured a lot of it was for later releases and whatnot, was just curious. I will say though, I'd prefer it if you kept the Iron Breastplate at least for the Bandits. Sure, it's just a variation of the original iron cuirass, but I like the lack of the shoulderpads and the cloth skirt. Anyways, off to explore more.
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Waalx
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nemetoad wrote:, I'd prefer it if you kept the Iron Breastplate at least for the Bandits. Sure, it's just a variation of the original iron cuirass, but I like the lack of the shoulderpads and the cloth skirt. Anyways, off to explore more.
the bandits armors stay.. I just said they are not entirely finished. but they mostly are. I need to do more belt variations and fix the skirt/belt to work without clipping.


here are the first in-game of the Gnolls.. I like how their face turned out in animation. The body need more work...


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Mormacil
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That's freaking awesome :D
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Maigrets
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The Gnolls look brilliant! And the Dead Knights...I read back a number of pages to find everything!

I, for one, am glad this will be a stand alone overhaul and not be broken up and spread around the others. It would be terrible to break it up and lose the whole atmosphere and element of surprise when you come across these new additions. Not to mention all the hard work that's gone into it.

I commented previously that I have a low to mid range computer and I have decided that if this is the only overhaul I can play, then so be it!! I can't wait until it's done.... :) I'll play with the Alpha until then and when the AI and spawns are settled it will be wonderful.

This is how the game world should be populated, with creatures that run from you or are just shy, and others that are hostile. It's not realistic to me that everything, everywhere is hostile. I just like to wander around and check out the scenery sometimes and it gets boring when every five feet something wants to eat you.
I guess a lot will disagree but I don't kill everything just because it's there.

I didn't get time to play today but I am definitely going to be checking out as much as possible tomorrow. This mod makes the game feel like a different world and that is refreshing.

I "really" want to see a saber tooth tiger. Thanks to the map, I know where to look.
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Gnoll's? Never heard of them, but they look pretty scary, thought they were werewolves at firsth. Cool new goblin-like enemies (think they are based on Goblins)! I might have a good spot for them somewhere!

Gnoll's Meeting Camp? :P
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Mormacil
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nemetoad
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oOo I likey the Gnolls. They're like overgrown cute things that have a bad attitude. Almost make me think of Werewolf raiders or something too.
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Waalx
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update on the gnolls...start to be there. Just need a couple more props, and a few fur colors variations.

Notice the black goblin profile compared to the gnoll next to it. The Gnolls are much more athletic and wolvish, the spine isn't placed at the same spot either and it make a big difference visually.

They are a bit close to werewolves... the werewolves will be a bit more mean.

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Mormacil
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They look awesome, weird feet though.
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Conker343qc
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Alright, that's gonna be even more feared in caves than goblins ! Guess their faster heh ? ... Are they gonna be a lot bigger than goblins ? At least it seems like it by the screenshot ...
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oOo looking good. I agree though, the feet look a bit weird. The thickness of the nails seems odd compared to the meaty-ish feet. Maybe if the nails were bigger at the base?

And all I have to say towards the idea of meaner werewolves is "Sweet". I take you're going to make them creatures rather than npcs?

Also, curious thought too. Are you touching Shivering Isles in any way in some eventual point of time? I know you're focusing mostly on Cyrodiil and Hircineland right now, after all.
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