NoName101 wrote:Turns out our mod maker is also has a great sense of humor!
man.. I wish I could comment sometimes in my native language 'French Canadian', one that is quite something in vulgarity and blasphemy. Thankful however that I cant for obvious reason. Even if I consider this board to have free speech, I'm still restraining my own opinions to a degree.
Anyway I was about to jump into dissing the troll.
It took me a while to answer the troll, I was trying to have the kid calm down a bit if possible. Didn't work. It was a don't feed the troll situation. Special marks to Mr StarX who chimed-in with a comment that had nothing to do with the rest of that debate. Ignore an annoying thing and it will often leave by itself.
Still...WAC must have its weight contrary to what he wrote, as he kept coming back after he said it was crap. I think he has a 'tooth' against WAC (or me).
Dazu wrote:
But I think the weight point he raised is a valid one. The game has never calculated things in pounds or anything else. It's just a number that the player has at his disposal. Some things are heavier than others but are not set in stones (poor pun intended, English is not my mother tongue Very Happy). Having very heavy stuff is OK, as long as not everything is made heavy for the sake of it. I can see why a sabertooth fang is heavy, since the beast itself is huge, but the regular ingredients need not be very heavy.
It all depend on the subject at hand. I'm not sure anybody understant the weight to be honest. Haruko mentioned it was about old English Stones system, but that can't actually be true either. A quick WIKI read on that tell you it can't be in stones.
1 stone equal 14 pounds. No human (even at their 100%) could carry 300 stones in weight like you can in the game at 100 strength it would mean you can carry 4200 pounds!! That's how vanilla is built. Can't be in stones. Or it's not the old English stones system, but another.
I'm not sure exactly how that will play in WAC. I'm still thinking about it. WAC will provide the player with donkey to carry more and stuff like that. Getting good with a feather spell will help more. or a backpack.
I have plans to add a couple of player houses in WAC (other than Anja's work). One of them will be based on what I will make for the Poisoners of WAC. Some kind of small tower that will be made especially for alchemy in mind...
I guess what you (Waalx) are trying to do is preventing the player from running around with 60 potions, but you will end up frustrating most of the players.
yes and that's actually my goal. The more frustrating and hard the more fun it is. If you have no frustration and everything is easy and made so it's like you're a child being led by an adult that always oversee that nothing too hard can happen...what's the fun?
I will return to a point I was talking of when I started doing WAC. One of the example for this mod I took from is the games Gothic, where you are indeed in an open world space, but you are puny, and your progress must be calculated. I obviously can't do the same and that's not the goal either, but I like to draw from this a bit with WAC.
I don't want to prevent the player from running with 60 potions, but then I would like that if he/she's carrying too much it will reduce the inventory more, not help the player to carry more.
I can see a large chunk of WAC users resorting to "bag of holding" mods to compensate the fact that they cannot carry a lot of potions, and that will kill some of your concepts.
so be it, but don't forget that what I'm doing is the original version of WAC. One can easily change WAC values by making an esp to overwrite the master file values. In fact I will welcome that with open arms when all is more in place with WAC.
If potions are made heavy, then they should be more effective/interesting to counter that fact. I'm sure you have something planned for that, as I've seen some of your poisons in the chest outside the sewers
Wink
yes, the potions should (and will) be more powerful. The poisons you talk of are to be more powerful than ordinary folks potions however. They will only be available to buy from certified poisoners in WAC. (probably one poisoner shop per city for a start.)
If the game was based on one-on-one combat then carrying only 2/3 potions at a time would work, but most of the time, the player is surrounded, so for balance's sake the player should be able to carry an unrealistic amount of potions to get a fighting chance.
As I said I'm not going to limit it THAT much
I'm of the firm opinion though that this game need to have more limitations. In more area than one I must say.
You also must consider the good old adage "weight VS value" so dear to looters. Why would I bother carrying a 100 unit carcass when I can carry 10 enchanted rings and be 10 times as rich?
I consider the carcass system to be half done, almost all elements are in place.. but it need to be scripted, and then we can give more reasons to hunt. Maybe you are helping the Empire when you hunt and bring back your carcass. It could bring you fame, and help some of your attribute. It could give you a new faction, launch a quest, Or you could chose the money. They will be worth lot money only if you bring them back to a butcher who will take them at full price. Otherwise they will be worth almost nothing.
Or then. What if they could be used as bait? you encounter a beast that attack, and you drop him food. The beast stop and stand by the meat and you're free to go.
Beside this you got this wrong. Nobody should carry 100 carcass in WAC. Most people in the world would have problem carrying more than one 'small' deer.
As for the smaller portions of meat, even in vanilla, the meat portions are all steak-sized. Their icons and world models depict what can be seen as 'meal' portion. It's in fact food. Not for alchemy, but for consumption. The meat is classified as ingredient, yet it is meal portions. If you find an apple it's a whole apple, or a whole orange. No apple seeds, or orange skin. It's cutting hairs in four at this point.
The real problem lie in the Ingredients category, and a missing Food category. If both were separate, it would make sense. Now you have the choice of having an orange weight 0.01 because you want ingredients, yet you still picked-up the whole fruit. I'm certainly not going to split each Oblivion ingredients to sub-atomic particles.
Granted a true (hardcore) roleplayer will have his reasons to go to the butcher, but I fear that it will get old too quickly for the masses, as greed will take the better of most players
everything get old... I wrote a bit up there what could help this in the future.
Very Happy Considering how much you (and the others here) have put into the mod, it would be a shame to see it ostracized (too strong a word?).
ostracized is not really a good word I guess. As I said I'm open to have mods built on WAC that change it to something else, it's in the Read-Me. I do it like I want and if it doesn't work patches can be builts that changes parts of WAC to agree more with another playstyle. The restrain I have to see it done at this point is the fact I'm in Alpha with it. Certain things can already be done, but for some others like integrating WAC to FCOM it's not.
I think what I'm trying to say is that not all concepts, as good as they sound on paper, are interesting/fun gameplay wise.
I know that's why there be options.
I also know that you have not yet started with balancing per se but weight should be an important component. This is what made T.I.E. a minor mod when it could have been much more. Being hardcore for the sake of it.
I'm not sure you can compare a mod like WAC with TIE, as there's no new content in TIE. I'm not saying this in a derogatory way, in fact to be honest TIE is probably the only mod that can be called a true Vanilla overhaul because of it's wise use of vanilla resources. WAC is almost all about changing the resources, and... adding more.
I hope I can give some input when the time comes (balancing creatures and the like).
Mormacil wrote:Haha, trollrank XD
As for running a no CD crack. Waalx IIRC only the startup menu of Oblivion has DRM. It you run the .exe directly you don't need a crack Wink Hope that helps with OBSE Smile
yes Anja said that too a while back. I will have to check on that.
Anja wrote:I just want to apologize to Waalx and everyone for inflaming the situation. I should think more before I post. It won't happen again.
that's sweet, (but unnecessary)
You know I stand by your opinion more on that.
selene310187 wrote:I have this issue, too, and informed Waalx about it via PM. It's because of the edit in worldspace/cell 3,3 which makes local map markers missing:
yes
. It had already been discussed here. Next WAC version is fixed and will solve that bug.
Hope that helps with OBSE 
I dunno, just thinking. Could be good for a high level player taht goes on a safari.
