WAC Beta v0.1 - Downloads, comments, suggestions

[ztrathego]

What I did to fix the bashed patch issue with Vampire / Beastmaster races:

Open the files in TES4Edit and go to the races section. Find ENAM - Eyes near the bottom. (For the beastmaster race make sure "Hide no conflict rows" is NOT activated).

For the beastmaster race, simply delete the line:

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Eye eyeVampireYellowWAC "Eye Vampire" [EYES:01006955]

OR

change that line to read:

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eyeVampire "eyeVampire" [EYES:0003B379]

For the vampire race, copy over the original value from oblivion.esm, that is:

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eyeVampire "eyeVampire" [EYES:0003B379]

And also delete the same value you deleted from the beastmaster race. This way you get the keep the races but with the eyes changed so that wrye bash works. This is ofcourse a temporary fix like the one I posted for WAC - Legion.esp above, but something that works until it's officially fixed.

NOTE: I have not actually encountered an npc of the vampire or beastmaster races ingame after making these changes, so there might be graphical anomalities. There shouldn't be however, especially not for the vampire race since it simply reverts back to the eyes normally used without WAC. The bashed patch does compile just fine even with TRAP.esp active and checked under Race Records atleast with this change.

Edit: I went to the arena to see if if there were any issues after these changes, but it all seemed fine. Also, I'm trying to determine what bash tags might be useful to add to the various esp's, and have so far noticed that WAC - Horses.esp could use the Graphics tag to make the bashed patch import all the new models. That along with the changes I posted for WAC - Legion.esp before is all I've come up with so far, but I'm not very good at this stuff so I'm sure someone must've figured out more than me so far.

[Vacuity]

Sorry, been a little busy, so was slow to get stuff done.

I've updated the BOSS masterlist with the latest files. I've also added provisional Bash tags, based on what the plugins are doing.

Added the Invent tag to WAC - OverSpawn.esp to get its creature inventory changes to work on those vanilla creature records affected by other overhauls. If you prefer the inventory setup from said other overhauls then simply don't select the import option for this plugin in Bash.
Removed the NPC.Race tag from WAC - TCOS Invent only.esp as this is a private plugin that is intended to be used only for importing the inventory. Who on earth added that tag anyway... I don't remember making this plugin available to anyone else.
Both WAC - Horses.esp and WAC - Legion.esp needed the Graphics tag.
WAC - Gladiator.esp needed the Delev tag to make sure it would remove items from the original arena leveled lists as intended.

For those who know what they're doing, there are dirty edits to Cell and NPC records in WAC - Player Summons.esp that TES4Edit won't automatically clean.

Thanks for the notes about the legion armour, ztrathego.

After making edits to the eye records, you may also need to edit the eye mesh being used by the NPC ArenaBeastmaster "Beastmaster" [NPC_:xx010432] in WAC - Gladiator.esp as he uses the eye record that's causing trouble. Not too sure what will happen if you don't adjust his record and he's still referencing an eye record that's no longer available to his race. Maybe nothing... The game engine doesn't always throw a wobbly when it meets something wrong, just mostly...

Vac

[ztrathego]

Another bug:

Travelling to the Gnoll Meeting Camp (southeast of Kvatch) causes an immediate crash. Looking up the worldspace edit in tes4edit for this area reveals no conflicts, but even opening up WAC.esp in the CS and selecting view for the area (-29, -4) causes an immediate crash of the CS.

Edit: Just had another user confirm this on the Bethesda forums aswell, just for the record.
Edit 2: Maxie on the Bethesda forums just reported that this bug can be fixed like this:

Removing the 2 CreaturesWacGnolls07guard solved the problem for me, no more crash and I can fast travel. Those creatures are not in the list of the existing creatures if you look in the CS.

Happy New Year to the community :celebration:

[Artfact]

Thanks for the edit heads-up guys.
Anyone run into any problems with the WAC OOO patch compatibility?

Edit:Computability...nice one..
I just noticed in TES4Edit that a whole bunch of the weapons that the OOO patch balances are not using the WAC master.
Does this mean that all these weapons are no longer in use/have been switched with other form Id's?
This might explain that most Imperial Guards were having a missing mesh icon as their weapon...

[Maxie]

Adding a mini bug to the list : icon missing for the Djiin spell; fixed it by using one I have from another mod.

[spambrosial]

The CreatureWacGnoll07guard error may be because it doesn't have a model assigned? They console in okay after adding Creatures\Goblin\Skeleton.NIF to the file. They're also present in a couple leveled lists, so that's going to have to be fixed the "right" way (or you can also chop them out of WLGnollList and WLGnollBlackList, I suppose).

And yeah, quite a few formids that were present in the last alpha are gone, so existing patches based on the old version may behave badly. They should mostly just be harmlessly injecting records into the .esm's space, but you should check them carefully before using them - if they're trying to patch something that's changed record types, who knows what will happen (nothing good!)

/edit

Never mind that prattle about the leveled lists - either Tes4Edit had too much eggnog, or I did.

[Waalx]

Everything seen to be working okay. Thank! The only issue I have is the Crayfish Goblin Camp near Crayfish Cave?. There seen to be a land issue. This is the only new spawn from WAC which I have visited.

I have not seen this. Dunno what to do here...

Unfortunately with the new beta release I'm having bashed patching issues.

the bashed patch error:

From what I can tell this is very similar to the vampire eye issue. The race that is having the issue is 0Beastmaster and that is from the WAC -Gladiator.esp

If I understand things correctly then I need to either assign a mesh to the eye texture or reassign the eye for that race. Unlike the vampire race issue - deleting the race from the esp does not seem like a good idea as it seems it may be used.

So what do i do? Currently not using the Gladiator esp so I can bash patch and move on.

Not Sure what to do about this actually. The Beastmaster race works fine here.



note: To be able to train with the Beastmaster and see creatures in the BloodPit cages, you need to be an Arena Combatant already. The Beastmaster of the Arena can be found in-game in the BloodPit under the Blue Team BloodWorks, The Bloodpit entrance is a new door that is the bars in the center column. If you lift themetal plate it will reveal a semi-circular stairway. Like this:



The BloodPit is meant to be more...but at this time you can pay the Beastmaster to fight random beasts in the cages. Choose your cage number, and pay the fee, the Beastmaster will then leave to close the middle-ring and open the cage you chose via a lever. Don't follow him outside the middle-ring before he close it or you will be trapped with no way out.

If not in combat and the Beastmaster is roaming around, you can go upstairs and find the Room VII on the Blue side. It's yours with a bed and a chest, you get the key from Owyn once you join the Blue. Flavius upstairs in the Blue Team Bloodworks will later sell you some furnitures should you need some for you room.

If you empty the 10 cages in the BloodPit, you will win some gold. Each time you empty ten cages up to a certain maximum that is very high, you gain in some attribute (1 point), and more and more gold depending on how many ten cages you kill. The sum of your BloodPit kills is counted in a book you can find upstairs. Once you empty a cage it will remain empty and filled anew only if you empty all ten and leave the BloodPit a while.

For testing all this so far, of course the Beastmaster had to work, and... it does. The Vampire eyes problem you seems to have is rather confusing as it's only a different texture in a new formID, like I did for many other eye types in WAC. Some eyes also use a 'dual-eyes' set-up that use a different eyes mesh and apparently you have no problem with that one? Weird. WAC also change the Bosmer's so they all have dark eyes like in Morrowind, yet no problem here as well?

So maybe, the problem lie in the nomenclature of the eye texture and name, Maybe it's the word 'Vampire' that mess with something. So I changed the name for the next release. Let's see if that work for Wrye Bash users.

And very unfortunate to report a mod conflict with a pretty cool mod - Shezries Towns: http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35908

Seems the towns mod places a village right square on top of the Abacean Goblin camp. The town has quests related to other villages and the Goblins make quick work of the villagers.

Hopefully some form of patch can be worked out.

well... it's a small world. Only thing to do is to remove one or the other, or to move one or the other away. As usual for me this type of problem is a bit finicky as I can't know of every mod there is. And beside that, the camp was in WAC since last year's version. I win!

There's an issue that show up with WAC - Legion.esp active

Why am I not seeing this armor in any of your screens? Your 'best' one is not wearing sandals! Does everybody have the problem ztrathego have? Maybe it's something in your data folder? The legions have been changed a lot so far by many people, and in WAC you can chose between 2 different changes... not sure here. I made this mod on a whim... really.

Edit: I went to the arena to see if if there were any issues after these changes, but it all seemed fine. Also, I'm trying to determine what bash tags might be useful to add to the various esp's, and have so far noticed that WAC - Horses.esp could use the Graphics tag to make the bashed patch import all the new models. That along with the changes I posted for WAC - Legion.esp before is all I've come up with so far, but I'm not very good at this stuff so I'm sure someone must've figured out more than me so far.

for your time here. The problems of Vampire Eyes may be solved now, the legion is working fine here though.

Travelling to the Gnoll Meeting Camp (southeast of Kvatch) causes an immediate crash.

Yep. I must have hit the wrong button on the creature. I fixed it. Thanks for locating the error guys!

WAC - Gladiator.esp needed the Delev tag to make sure it would remove items from the original arena leveled lists as intended.

Not sure here as I only run a handful of mod and thus have no use for BOSS so I don't know it. But what you are saying here raise a question for me.
The Gladiator .esp changes many things in vanilla and sometimes the (vanilla persistent references) gladiators themselves appear as if wearing vanilla stuff (sometimes over/under what I added). Did you fix something similar here or what?

Adding a mini bug to the list : icon missing for the Djiin spell; fixed it by using one I have from another mod.

Thanks I will see to it. Although I believe I still have many icons to do (ie: bandits). Boring stuff to me (icons):P

The Djiin should get an update soon. When I first did them I didn't know how to script at all. Now I guess I can do a better system for them. (like have the dark ones attack the player as I intended...).

I just noticed in TES4Edit that a whole bunch of the weapons that the OOO patch balances are not using the WAC master.
Does this mean that all these weapons are no longer in use/have been switched with other form Id's?
This might explain that most Imperial Guards were having a missing mesh icon as their weapon...

Yes I indeed I may have messed around a bit with some items. Unfortunately I don't remember what I messed around with. I believed it was important? Align a list of objects in the CS maybe... or Replacing something with something else but with a something else name (for the lists)?. Lists management in WAC is becoming something though... :sad

So I figure I should give you a real "compatibility list" of WAC based on what is running when I test it meself, so here goes. Just that, and the occasional temporary esp I make for testing WAC stuff independently.

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OBMM
Oblivion.esm
Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esm
MathFunctions.esm
Waalx Animals & Creatures.esm
RAEVWD Cities.esp
Diverse Voices.esp
Active_Inventory_Spell_1.2.esp
Natural_Weather_HDR_by_Max_Tael.esp
Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp
Natural_Water_by_Max_Tael.esp
Natural_Vegetation_by_Max_Tael.esp
Knights.esp
DLCShiveringIsles.esp
KT_CustomRaceFix.esp
Harvest [Flora].esp
Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp
Harvest[Containers].esp
marcQuickChar.esp
NoLoad.esp
[GFX]_Initial_Glow-all.esp
WAC - BlackBootDungeon.esp
WAC - Dead Knights.esp
WAC - Player Summons.esp
WAC - Crowded Roads Revisited.esp
WAC - TCOS Shops.esp
WAC - Horses.esp
MathFunctions.esp
WAC - OverSpawn.esp
WAC - 8th Gate.esp
WAC - TCOS.esp
WAC - Legion.esp
WAC - Companions.esp
WAC - Birds&Insects.esp
WAC.esp
WAC - Gladiator.esp

The truth is, I haven't played Oblivion in a long time. Each time I enter the world is for testing, and retesting. There's quite a few good mods out there that I would add to the list. If I was playing... For testing this thing, I need more or less to see only vanilla Oblivion, What I add to my list doesn't interfere much with that.

I played a lot of games OTHER than Oblivion last year (Assassin Creed 2, Mass Effect 1 & 2, Batman, F3 New Vegas...) and it was a great distraction (total blast!) from this project of which I was lacking juice and interest a bit , although WAC still evolved, slowly (and in short bursts of speed).



Still... I'm working on it.

I must say I am (or was) with a bet I took with myself about this forum and what it entail, last year. Well, I lost but...I must admit that it was a fun experiment though, if not just to see what people would say on the inter-web about me becoming the ghost of my own forum. Some people... that's all I can say. Some great people.

I was always here, reading every posts and as it's still my gold that keep this forum going, obviously I can't have died or something. It was curiously 'awesome' to leave it all behind and sneak around. Something that nobody can do with a real business project, earning nothing is a bizarre key to freedom in that respect. Or a key to nothing, but ..yeah..
It was insane maybe? Maybe, but insane as well is the character I (and others) made stories of that few people enjoyed (so far). It was a habit of his though, to disappear entirely for years on-end and wake-up, decades or centuries later...

Thanks for keeping-up with me!

[Bizzy]

Is it normal that I can't fight against the Grandmaster?

Because I can't go in the Arena after the dialog with the woman from the Blood Team.

Sorry for my English .

[ztrathego]

@Waalx: Thanks for looking into what we have reported thus far.
That sandal issue is weird! I'm looking at the WAC - Legion.esp now, and there is no reference to sandals (or boots of any kind) in it.

About the eye-mesh issue with beastmaster, I believe it only becomes an issue when used together with certain mods that make changes to the races such as Race Balancing Project and TRAP.

[Waalx]

Is it normal that I can't fight against the Grandmaster?

Because I can't go in the Arena after the dialog with the woman from the Blood Team.

Sorry for my English .

Yes it is normal. The BloodTeam BloodWork is nearly complete, but the main quest will not work correctly at that point as I changed Agronak look and location. I need to make a bridge between the old quest and what I want for it.

That's what I meant when I wrote in the read-me that you may not be able to complete the Arena quest for now. Although after speaking with her you should be able to return to the Blue Team side and enter the Arena from there maybe?

Otherwise, you seems to have made in the Arena up till the Grand Champion, so I guess the Arena Quest was working fine up to that point which is good enough for me at the moment...

@Waalx: Thanks for looking into what we have reported thus far.
That sandal issue is weird! I'm looking at the WAC - Legion.esp now, and there is no reference to sandals (or boots of any kind) in it.

About the eye-mesh issue with beastmaster, I believe it only becomes an issue when used together with certain mods that make changes to the races such as Race Balancing Project and TRAP.

The sandals are not a separate object, they are part of the suit of armor. The Legion.esp armors are full suit of armors, so technically they should replace everything an Imperial Guard is wearing. Helmets are separate, the rest make use of all body slots.

For the eyes, lets see what the next update can bring to the table. I still have the weird feeling that it has to do with the word 'vampire'. If not every new eyes I add with WAC would give you errors with Wrye Bash, not just the vampire ones...

[ztrathego]

Ah so the cuirass actually includes the sandals and skirt aswell, that changes things! Got it work just fine now after simply adding Graphics and Invent tags to the original esp instead of making the changes with tes4edit I posted earlier. Some guards still seem to use different helms though but I suppose that is intended (ie, not the plumed helm - the guards on the Weye bridge for example). Cheers for clearing that up, the sandals fit alot better.

[Psymon]

Hi Waalx - so great to see you posting here.

I'm late to playing with WAC and only really started using it as a central mod a few months ago, but spent a long time admiring the pictures and work done. You are the last of the original overhaul authors standing the rest have all moved on. That is heartening, but I'm wondering what effect the announcement of Skyrim had on this current version being released.

As for the issue with the Beastmaster eyes - I never tested in game - it is totally a bashed patch issue. They may show up fine in game. The problem is that the bashed patch process fails with the current eye. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending upon one's point of view) playing without a bashed patch is no longer an option for many many reasons. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way about Wrye Bash.

I'm not sure you even use a bashed patch yourself - if not then I'm certain folks would like to help with getting WAC bashable. So whatever I can do - I'm there for it.

I have a few questions about the current version that are more general and, hopefully, easy to answer:
1. As I recall and looked into the alpha was unleveled encounters - is this still true? Or did you start leveling encounters for this version. To that end are there special considerations with regard to the lists such as removing vanilla entries (in overspawn) or did you just add to lists.

2. I also remember reading that you had hopes to have a greater scope with this so that it touches things like game settings, weapon stats, combat AI, maybe things like stealth and magic too. Is this still a goal?

Currently I've been mixing this with TIE mostly because TIE too was unleveled but also because TIE does handle NPC AI and weapon stats and so on. So partly I'm asking these for my own selfish reasons of having a good load order and partly to think ahead about what will be a good combination of mods.

I think that is it for now - a lot for all this.

[petermsi]

I have doubt which the .esp adds new spells? what because I've crossed with characters outside of the stables of the imperial city and don't sell anything, and I had imagined that something I this failing to install, but I am not sure where I am wrong.?

[Waalx]

Hi Waalx - so great to see you posting here.

I'm late to playing with WAC and only really started using it as a central mod a few months ago, but spent a long time admiring the pictures and work done. You are the last of the original overhaul authors standing the rest have all moved on. That is heartening, but I'm wondering what effect the announcement of Skyrim had on this current version being released.

As for the issue with the Beastmaster eyes - I never tested in game - it is totally a bashed patch issue. They may show up fine in game. The problem is that the bashed patch process fails with the current eye. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending upon one's point of view) playing without a bashed patch is no longer an option for many many reasons. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way about Wrye Bash.

I'm not sure you even use a bashed patch yourself - if not then I'm certain folks would like to help with getting WAC bashable. So whatever I can do - I'm there for it.

No I don't use Wrye Bash, nor OBSE. My reason is simple I don't run enough mods, as you can read in a post I made earlier about it. The other reason I have not to use OBSE is that it's said to need the original game .exe to work. After reading this I didn't even try it. Now..I own the original game since day 1, and the GOTY version, I just don't need my BD_Rom to run a check-disk each time I load the game. Big hassle maybe, but for me it enough to do without. I buy my games, and as for many I could do without all the DRM hassle.

I'm not sure what I can do to make this thing work for Wrye Bash, but I'm open to suggestions.

1. As I recall and looked into the alpha was unleveled encounters - is this still true? Or did you start leveling encounters for this version. To that end are there special considerations with regard to the lists such as removing vanilla entries (in overspawn) or did you just add to lists.

Most of WAC is not leveled. Rather it's more about locations. In many instances there's a leveling done, but it's mostly about the quantity of enemies/beasts.

2. I also remember reading that you had hopes to have a greater scope with this so that it touches things like game settings, weapon stats, combat AI, maybe things like stealth and magic too. Is this still a goal?

Other than what I added myself, I didn't change much. WAC is more about new content than balancing what was there. Many things I changed re-balance or de-balance what was there prior, Bandits for example will not use better gears over time as in vanilla. WAC touch very little about the points you ask in a direct way, so far it's mostly only due to the way I see stuff.

I have doubt which the .esp adds new spells? what because I've crossed with characters outside of the stables of the imperial city and don't sell anything, and I had imagined that something I this failing to install, but I am not sure where I am wrong.?

WAC has many spells but they are not for the player nor to buy. StarX made a mod that has some merchants who can sell summon spells, though I don't think that's what you're asking here.
I guess its probably about some merchants for the roads I'm working on. They don't have anything to sell, they should buy what you have to sell though.

WAC - Crowded Roads Revisited also have roaming merchants, although they are not selling stuff either I think...

[petermsi]

Exc Mods he
I don't speak English very well, but the mod is very understandable in spite of the enormous amount of data to my is a fantastic mod added things that I always imagined finding hits and 10000% recommend it.

[Psymon]

OK Waalx - for answers.

I've never altered the game to not use the exe (I use GOTY) to avoid DRM, so I'm not sure if I follow. I did alter the exe to use more ram than 2 gigs max though.

I appreciate the approach you are taking with the leveling so more moving to a place centric approach to leveling.

And also by not including things like rebalancing all vanilla weapons then this could work fine with mods that do provide that (I guess except of course the weapons you add, but I've not experienced anything drastic).

Thanks for some clarification - very much look forward to more.

So far with Wrye Bash the only real issue I've seen is the Beastmaster eyes - not sure why though.

[Bizzy]

Other than what I added myself, I didn't change much. WAC is more about new content than balancing what was there. Many things I changed re-balance or de-balance what was there prior, Bandits for example will not use better gears over time as in vanilla. WAC touch very little about the points you ask in a direct way, so far it's mostly only due to the way I see stuff.

Also, you will change nothing in the balance?

I think the chestloot for example would be a good thing for the WAC overspawn esp.


An again, sorry for my english.

[petermsi]

There is a demonstration of this beautiful mod video? are you.?

[Maigrets]

Thank you for the new release. It's awesome as I expected and is now the only overhaul I'm using.

Also an extra big for including the black and white dog files you made for My Dog Rosie which I lost with the other files you made for me in a hard drive crash. I stupidly didn't have them backed up so I lost the whole mod I was making.

Concerning the dog files...you mentioned when you made them that I would be able to release them in my Rosie mod. I'd like to ask if that's possible now.

[Waalx]

I've never altered the game to not use the exe (I use GOTY) to avoid DRM, so I'm not sure if I follow. I did alter the exe to use more ram than 2 gigs max though.

not Important much. Just a no-cd patch. Illegal. but useful. And again I own 2 retails versions. I would probably use Wrye Bash and OBSE if I was playing a game. Right now I'm already lost (sometimes) just to make my own things work

I appreciate the approach you are taking with the leveling so more moving to a place centric approach to leveling.

I think in the end there will be a bit of both.

And also by not including things like rebalancing all vanilla weapons then this could work fine with mods that do provide that (I guess except of course the weapons you add, but I've not experienced anything drastic).

As long as I don't replace something with WAC the rest I will not touch. For some things it become very obvious. Like the Gladiator mod where I have changed a lot, and not only on the surface. Gladiator (the Arena) is the quest I have modified the most, and it learned me how to script a bit, and quest, and dialogues.

So far with Wrye Bash the only real issue I've seen is the Beastmaster eyes - not sure why though.

If the next versions doesn't work for Wrye Bash, I'll change that.

Also, you will change nothing in the balance?

I think the chestloot for example would be a good thing for the WAC overspawn esp.

Of the base game (vanilla), unless I change/replace something usually I don't touch.

What you say of chest loot wass in my mind. I want to see big monsters in lairs full of treasures, piles of gold and jewels.

There is a demonstration of this beautiful mod video? are you.?

hmmm. no. No video of WAC that I know of.

There's one of RealSwords Nord on YouTube though

Thank you for the new release. It's awesome as I expected and is now the only overhaul I'm using.

Also an extra big for including the black and white dog files you made for My Dog Rosie which I lost with the other files you made for me in a hard drive crash. I stupidly didn't have them backed up so I lost the whole mod I was making.

Concerning the dog files...you mentioned when you made them that I would be able to release them in my Rosie mod. I'd like to ask if that's possible now.

yes of course..