WAC Beta v0.1 - Downloads, comments, suggestions

[Gork712]

I did two tests, one with no mods at all, and one with my mods activated and WAC not activated. Both times oblivion worked perfectly. o.0

I have tried using ref scope, but i cannot use it on the pink road tesxtures, nor the bridge because it isnt there. More than that though i cannot reach the bridge without pluggy anyway because there are several crashes it prevents on the way, i hear its ding sound four times on the way. However when i get to the missing bridge pluggy prevents another crash that prevents me from seeing the ingame menu, or even using refscope. Really not sure what is going on. :|

Also concerning archive invalidation, currently in obmm i use the BSA alteration method, because a mod i installed which i forget which one it was suggested that approach. Should i be using BSA redirection instead or is this ok?

[palidoo]

Does anyone else have a roadrunner that sits in front of the gate to Skingrad, coming from the castle (screenshot)? This little guy has been sitting there forever, maybe just by chance I haven't let the cell respawn, but he's obviously stuck! Just a weird anomaly, hehe.

[Fessels]

Yeah i hat that ones or twice to, that roadrunner would not move.

So one time i thought...ok then i will put it out of it's misery. Well once i killed it my char ended up dead herself because the roadrunner hat reflect damage. (Which was due to the mod Automatic Difficulty increaser i found out later. )

[Maigrets]

I did two tests, one with no mods at all, and one with my mods activated and WAC not activated. Both times oblivion worked perfectly. o.0

I have tried using ref scope, but i cannot use it on the pink road tesxtures, nor the bridge because it isnt there. More than that though i cannot reach the bridge without pluggy anyway because there are several crashes it prevents on the way, i hear its ding sound four times on the way. However when i get to the missing bridge pluggy prevents another crash that prevents me from seeing the ingame menu, or even using refscope. Really not sure what is going on. :|

Also concerning archive invalidation, currently in obmm i use the BSA alteration method, because a mod i installed which i forget which one it was suggested that approach. Should i be using BSA redirection instead or is this ok?

You should be using BSA Redirection so the game uses files other than the ones in the BSA's and when and if you remove those files the game will revert to the vanilla BSA's. Sometimes a mod might tell you to use another method temporarily, for example, OFF - Optimized Facegen Files because it needs to make changes to the BSA's, but when that's done you change it back to "Redirection."

If a mod tells you to do otherwise you can revert the BSA's back to normal with Remove BSA Edits in OBMM and I imagine also with Wrye Bash, but I haven't needed to use the Bash method.

[jhondidfool]

Maybe it's just me... but WryeBash tells me that the vampire eye is not set in WAC.esm, and it won't let me rebuild the bashed patch...
it says exactly:

Code: Select all

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "basher.pyo", line 5307, in Execute
  File "bosh.pyo", line 17162, in buildPatch
  File "bosh.pyo", line 30261, in buildPatch
bolt.StateError: Mesh undefined for eye (Waalx Animals & Creatures.esm,0x006955) in race VampireRace

[Gork712]

I did two tests, one with no mods at all, and one with my mods activated and WAC not activated. Both times oblivion worked perfectly. o.0

I have tried using ref scope, but i cannot use it on the pink road tesxtures, nor the bridge because it isnt there. More than that though i cannot reach the bridge without pluggy anyway because there are several crashes it prevents on the way, i hear its ding sound four times on the way. However when i get to the missing bridge pluggy prevents another crash that prevents me from seeing the ingame menu, or even using refscope. Really not sure what is going on. :|

Also concerning archive invalidation, currently in obmm i use the BSA alteration method, because a mod i installed which i forget which one it was suggested that approach. Should i be using BSA redirection instead or is this ok?

You should be using BSA Redirection so the game uses files other than the ones in the BSA's and when and if you remove those files the game will revert to the vanilla BSA's. Sometimes a mod might tell you to use another method temporarily, for example, OFF - Optimized Facegen Files because it needs to make changes to the BSA's, but when that's done you change it back to "Redirection."

If a mod tells you to do otherwise you can revert the BSA's back to normal with Remove BSA Edits in OBMM and I imagine also with Wrye Bash, but I haven't needed to use the Bash method.

I see, following this i appear to have walked out of one problem and right into another.
with redirection, the pink roads are gone and the bridge is back. However now my custom skin textures are pink, darn ui does not work, and things like insects in natural habitats are replaced with missing mesh exclamation marks.

@jhondidfool
Everyone had that problem, on page 128 Maigrets quoted a step by step guide on how to fix it.

[jhondidfool]

I fixed it already. !

[jhondidfool]

Great...

Code: Select all

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "basher.pyo", line 5307, in Execute
  File "bosh.pyo", line 17162, in buildPatch
  File "bosh.pyo", line 30261, in buildPatch
bolt.StateError: Mesh undefined for eye (Waalx Animals & Creatures.esm,0x006955) in race 0Beastmaster

I'm trying to find it to see if I can make ot work

[jhondidfool]

fixed it again -_-

[palidoo]

I'm going to ask this again because I still feel like I'm missing out on the RealSwords--does anyone have TCOS working with a bunch of other mods that add items to the game like Armamentarium? I've got at least half a dozen of these mods, and when I rebuild my bashed patch they're all represented in the changes to leveled lists that come up, with some specific lists utilizing nearly of all the item-adding mods. But TCOS doesn't show up anywhere in those results, and I don't think I've come across any of its items in my game yet. Does anyone have experience with this and can tell me how to make TCOS work with everything else (if it isn't), or some way to confirm that it is working in my game? I just thought the RealSwords would spawn on new enemy NPCs like all of the other items from mods that add them, but maybe they're implemented differently?

[Maigrets]

I don't have Armamentarium installed now since I removed FCOM and a few other mods I don't need anymore as I feel WAC adds more than enough weapons and armours for my liking besides some other smaller mods I do keep around.

You might just have so many items spread around inventories that WAC items show up rarely if at all. Load order may also make a difference.

This screenshot is of Bash and showing TCOS.esp merged into it. Don't take any notice of the Bashed Patch name as it's specific to that character or that OOO is listed there. I'm not using OOO at the moment but it's still detected and I don't merge it for obvious reasons.

I can't help much more at the moment as I'm using a very old CRT monitor as my good LCD has died and is awaiting replacement. It's really difficult at the moment to do much game wise (or anything else) with a crappy screen and low resolution so I'm not playing at the moment to test anything either. Besides that the screen is slightly blurry which does nothing for my eyes, but at least I can still see something.

Hopefully this image will give you some idea. TCOS and all the other WAC esps are merged. Whether I need to merge the UOP and others there I'm not sure, but it works fine and everything shows up as it should with only WAC items on NPC's and in loot, besides items from mods like COBL and a few others.

I put it in a Spoiler tag as otherwise I have to scroll across to see it all myself at the moment.

spoiler:

[palidoo]

Thanks for the response and screenshot. I've got the same configuration, with TCOS merging under inventory, though I'm thinking what really matters is leveled lists, and TCOS shows up there as well for me with [ADR] after it, so it's got the right tags for removing and releveling items in leveled lists. It just doesn't modify any of them in the dialogue that comes up after rebuilding my bashed patch.

You're right that it's possible I've got so many mods that they're overwhelming my leveled lists. If you look at this thread I started, I have the first dozen or so mods on that list enabled and I'm thinking of adding more. Regardless, I'd still expect TCOS to show up in the dialogue that comes up after I rebuild my bashed patch. Even though there might be mods crowding it out in the game, it should still be listed as modifying leveled lists like the other mods. And the whole point of using Bash to merge them all is that they'll all show up in the game instead of overriding one another, so I just feel like I should have come across more RealSwords by now.

Is it possible OverSpawn is responsible for placing the items in leveled lists? I've only got the most basic WAC setup enabled, just the essential esps and TCOS. I planned to enable more eventually, but I know the OverSpawn esp has issues with MMM and at least one other mod I'm using, so I have been avoiding enabling it. Maybe I'll rebuild my bashed patch real quick with it enabled and see if it shows up modifying any leveled lists.

The only thing I can confirm is that I've come across an Imperial Gladius in-game, and some soldiers I came across were carrying them as well. That's just a single weapon though, and I'm thinking it's possible that another mod might be adding it. I'd just like to come across a weapon I can confirm as definitely being from TCOS and TCOS alone. I'm okay with them being rare, I just don't want to miss out altogether.

EDIT: Tried enabling the OverSpawn esp like I mentioned and the only leveled lists it modifies are creature ones, as I was expecting. I should mention, there's a single entry that TCOS modifies:

• LL0VampireShirt100
• Mage Equipment.esp
• WAC - TCOS.esp [ADR]

So I know it isn't being overlooked somehow. But why only vampire shirts? Where are all the weapons? I'd love to hear that they're being added to leveled lists in some manner that doesn't show up in that dialogue. Maybe it's just been bad luck and tonight I'll come across a RealSword for every race. Here's hoping, anyway.

[Maigrets]

With other large mods like Armamentarium and all they add in the mix, the rarity of WAC gear is going to increase out of sight.

I'm using all of the WAC esps also in the Leveled Lists section of Bash, so it probably makes a difference and I'm no longer using MMM either. The other overhaul mods are going to cause inconsistencies I guess especially since WAC isn't really compatible with them. Particularly other overhauls like MMM, OOO and FCOM. To get the full WAC experience you ultimately need to choose which mods you want to keep and which ones you can do without.

For various reasons I chose to remove FCOM and a lot of other mods like Armamentarium. One because I prefer the full WAC, and two because my computer started to struggle with them all as well as all the texture replacers I use and prefer to keep. Plus, I don't miss the CTD's I used to have.

Perhaps you could try a quick new character as a test with only the WAC esps and esm enabled and see the difference. Head straight to Vilverin out of the sewers and you will be seeing plenty of WAC stuff on the bandits.

With just the WAC files you won't need a new Bashed Patch just for testing purposes. Just back up your other saves first or remove them from the Saves folder temporarily.

[palidoo]

Thanks for responding once again.

I've actually been mostly satisfied with my half-assed WAC install. It was actually the first mod I tried that actually added anything to the game, and it wasn't until recently that I got MMM and all the item-adding mods. I really want them all to work together, even though I know I'm missing out on some of WAC's content not having the OverSpawn esp enabled. Still, it really seems like TCOS should be adding the RealSwords to my game, though I wish Waalx was around to explain exactly how they're implemented. Or at least someone who knows leveled lists and Bash well enough that could explain why they don't appear in that dialogue. Maybe it's just an overreaction on my part and I need to play more.

Do you have any WAC mods, specifially TCOS, modifying specific leveled lists when you rebuild your bashed patch? It's the last thing in the dialogue that comes up, first it lists the mods active and then the specific leveled lists modified and the mods that are affecting them, which is the part I'm focusing on.

I will do what you suggest and start a new game with just WAC eventually. I've got a few other reasons to try a new game as well, anyway. But I do intend to play my current game some more in case you're right and TCOS just hasn't had a chance to spawn any items with all of the other mods I've got. Enemy NPC equipment seems dominated by Armamentarium and John's Leveled List Overhaul right now, so it's likely that WAC and the other mods I've got that only add a few dozen items are just rare--which is actually kind of fun in its own way. I'd be happy with RealSwords being rare finds, I just need to know it's working in the first place, heh.

EDIT: Thanks to Vacuity on the official forums I've come to understand that the way TCOS implements its items is through modifying inventories and not adding to leveled lists (which is kind of weird to me), so TCOS shouldn't show up in that dialogue where I was expecting it. So I guess now I'm wondering if I just haven't come across the right NPCs. Maybe I'll see if some random NPCs are carrying RealSwords or if it's possible other mods I'm using, particularly the group of mods I use to diversify NPC clothes, are overriding the WAC stuff.

[Gork712]

So after being absolutely stumped about why my oblivion wasnt working well i decided to completely reinstall the game, i made a folder of all the mods i enjoy to use and re added them. And now everything works beautifully, i held off using WAC because im happy that my game is now stable and dont want to risk adding more mods yet, but also because i dont want to try again until a roberts male armour mod is released which would make the armours look even more fantastic than they already do. I also decided to try out the unique landscapes compilation and the lush and gaudy landscape mod, and now my oblivion is just.... :3
Cant believe i didnt do this before to be honest.

[Maigrets]

Gork712,

Nice to hear you got your game back and running.

You might have a long wait for a Robert's Male Conversion. As far as I know no-one is doing it yet, but I may be wrong and hopefully it will come along soon. Besides, most of the armours fully cover the body so IMHO they look pretty good anyway. I have male and female characters and as far as the male armours go the only thing I see is possible texture blotches on bare arms, but it's not that noticeable really.

[Gork712]

Yeah its the textures that bug me.
There are still a couple of things to work out such as a big gash near the waterfront but otherwise im happy i can play!

[palidoo]

Not sure if anyone cares, just wanted to give an update on my mission to understand TCOS, hehe. I ran around Cheydinhal seeing what kind of weapons people had (alas they had to suffer death by the hands of the console), and after checking out the test chest outside of the prison sewer I determined at least two of them had RealSwords. I'm not sure if others are being overridden by stuff like the Cyrodiil NPC Remodeling Project which comes later in my load order merging inventory into my bashed patch, or if the RealSwords are just distributed such that I don't come across them that often.

For example across from the prison sewer exit is an Ayleid ruin with some bandits. When I went over there, a number of them were already dead, having been killed by one or many of MMM's hostile NPCs (I kind of like this frequent inter-faction battling, fighting off the remaining enemies at a camp of dead bandits and trying to determine what went down before I got there is a lot more fun than feeling like every enemy NPC in the world is just waiting for me to show up and kill them). Anyway, one of the dead bandits had a Huruk, so Maigrets was right about the NPCs at that ruin carrying RealSwords.

Anyway, I guess this concludes my grand misunderstanding of how TCOS implements its weapons. I thought I'd be coming across them via leveled lists, but I misunderstood how they were implemented. So now I'll just have to see if TCOS integrates well with my other NPC-inventory-modifying mods. In the future I'm going to try to see if I can implement them via leveled lists myself, as well as resolve the issues between the OverSpawn esp and MMM. TES4Edit here I come!!!!

[Waalx]

TCOS implement the weapons in NPC inventory by either changing what the NPC had or adding a different list or an item directly. TCOS is more than about weapon in WAC though, it is what hold all the changes I made to NPC. Bandits, marauders, common folks, legions, TCOS touch a lot of NPC. Almost every changes to Vanilla NPC is made via TCOS. So whatever you choose to mix it with, the armors, weapons, clothes, will conflict with whatever modify those items as well.
WAC add many new NPC so it's possible you'll see WAC bandits even if running another mod that change the vanilla NPC, however I suspect most changes to vanilla inventory will be overwritten for the simple fact that NPC in Oblivion equip the best item they carry. If a mod add a better item than what WAC give bandits for example, you may find WAC bandit armor in their inventory if you loot them, but they will not wear it. Considering this all the RealSwords weapon would disappear at around level 10 if they were balanced to vanilla weapons. Many weapons are forced on NPC in WAC and they cannot and will not upgrade their gears later (bandits, marauders..).

While TCOS change many NPC it doesn't change them all. TCOS may also override vanilla clothing and armors so the belts bags can show-up.

Most of everything I made for NPC is in TCOS. Armors, weapons, clothes, beards too I think.

If a mod load after TCOS and it touch the same NPC, the other mod will overwrite TCOS because it load after.

Because TCOS in some case delete vanilla inventory to replace the items, if you add a mod that didn't also delete the inventory the same way, it will create mix-up. ie: I deleted a lvl list from an NPC inventory so he can wield a specific weapon and armor. Another mod change the leveled list I deleted, it will override what WAC does and may or may not appear at all.

[Gork712]

Because TCOS in some case delete vanilla inventory to replace the items, if you add a mod that didn't also delete the inventory the same way, it will create mix-up. ie: I deleted a lvl list from an NPC inventory so he can wield a specific weapon and armor. Another mod change the leveled list I deleted, it will override what WAC does and may or may not appear at all.

Concerning this part, would that mean the NPC would be naked?