WAC Beta v0.1 - Downloads, comments, suggestions

October 8th, 2011

I think you're correct Rites.

Some mods I've been using for years have started popping up in BOSS as needing TES4Editing for dirty records and I haven't had issues with any of them. Clocks of Cyrodiil would be one and I've used it since it was released.

Also, yes, many mods are meant to create conflicts. For example mods like OOO and other overhauls should NEVER be "cleaned" as they are designed to work the way they are.

In the early days of the game the word "conflict" would strike fear into any players heart, but conflicts are more often than not an indication that a mod has changed a record or added something to a cell. Unless it's a mod made by someone who has unintentionally made a mistake or changed something they shouldn't have, it's better to leave well alone despite what BOSS says.

The word "conflict" should be stricken from the Oblivion dictionary IMHO as it causes so much confusion about what a conflict actually is.

@ zilav
Don't TES4Edit anything from WAC, except for the vampire eye fix which will be sorted in the next version. You can also break spawns and leveled lists by editing things that are intentional.

Floreria · October 8th, 2011

Actually I never had (or never recognized problems with "Undeleting Records" via Tes4Edit because if I'm not totally wrong it just undelets deleted things and labels them invisible, sothey most likely don't mess up anything. Problem with deleted records is that if Mod A delets something what is needed by Mod b it will mostly crash if Mod B tries to touch the record.

But anyway the Identicalto Maste records should be leaved alone in my opinion. If you think they mess up something, take your time and check them by hand because most Overhaul need them to stay.

I don't stand that bashing&tagging always breaks how mods work. But not everything f.e. BOSS labeles to have bash tags should actually bashed. I usually sort my tags by hand. (f.e. Mod A changes creature stats and Mod B adds AI Packages - those could be bashed without any problems if tagging is correct.)

I agree that "conflicts" sounds like it's bad, but it mostly is not. If you have Unofficial Patch early in your loadorder "fixing" some weapon stats and an Overhaul loaded later changes weapon stats it will be a conflict, because a conflict often just means "overwritten record".

-> And, actually yes, the gnollfix IS adding ITM Records to fix a problem, so don't clean it. because then you may also delete it because after "cleaning" it's well.. empty.

zilav · October 8th, 2011

Thanks for information, I actually didn't clean it since when in doubt I leave mods alone. WAC is working perfectly along with TIE and patches, but it was kind of weird to see imperial legion soldier in Bruma walking on a snow in sandals

I have another question - what exactly does TCOS shops mod do? Readme says it adds shops with new stuff, but I don't want just to go and buy. Can I leave that mod and find everything new in loot, or I'll miss on something?
Also are there any critical conflicts between OCR and WAC? It is running fine with OCR in my game so far, but want to know what to expect later.

p.s. Great mod, the amount of content it adds is more than I expected actually. Especially bearded NPCs in Bruma and road runners

Psymon · October 9th, 2011

Rites wrote: i dont know how everyone feels about this, but i have learned something over the past few years of playing oblivion: Mods are SUPPOSED to create conflicts, thats how they properly work with the game. bashing/tagging/tes4Editing really breaks how mods are supposed to work in oblivion. try using BOSS only as a guide for install order and ignore the whole "needs tes4edit" garbage

of course this is just an opinion, but i run 200+ mods constantly without ever "cleaning" any of them and never have any issues with my game

This is bad information from the Giskard camp which has been disproven time and again.

Yes all mods are conflicts with the Oblivion.esm - that is correct, but that is not the issue. The issue arises when mods conflict with each other over how they overwrite the Oblivion.esm.

While it is totally possible to run 200+ mods without issue - that would depend on what 200 mods. Certainly it is possible to have 200 mods that have absolutely no overlap. All it takes is just two that do conflict in a bad way to cause issues. And you may have two or more that do already ... you just haven't 'activated' the conflict ... yet.

Floreria is correct about the deleted issue. using TES4Edit doesn't set things to invisible as much as disable their appearance by setting them way down below the ground. They can then be accessed by later loading mods without their being a crash to the referencing a deleted item.

Identical To Master records are ever only needed by mods that need to override another mod and set a record back to vanilla settings. Mostly it is certain overhauls that need this. I'm not aware of WAC needing this. Otherwise ITM records can undo earlier loading mods.

While they can be intentional - mostly these edits are the result of just moving things around in the CS. It generates them often even if you don't want them too. [In fact just removing the Abacean camp as described below - I generated over 30 ITMs and I didn't even move anything but the landscape - not one tree .. not one rock. Just a bunch of deleting (from WAC not Oblivion.esm)].

No overhaul or mod needs to have deleted records (deleted from Oblivion.esm that is). Ever.

In summary - yes if a mod with deleted or ITM record has such records that do not conflict with other mods then you are golden. The way to find out if they do is best done by tes4edit. Otherwise this stuff about bashed patches ruining mods is nonsense.

=========================

For the next version is there any chance the Gnoll camps can be shifted out to an extra esp?

The reason I ask is due to incompatibility with Shezrie's Towns which places a town right on top of the Abacean Gnoll camp.

=========================

Well since Shezries village is more complicated and has to be there for her mod - I've attempted to remove the Abacean Gnoll Camp from my copy of WAC.esp but something is not right. I've deleted as much of the area as I can think of but I get crashing in that area (without Shezrie's town even loaded). A few questions.

Is removing the door to the gnoll chieftain bad? Or only bad with a game already in progress?
It seems turning off the scripts prevents a crash - is there a script set to run upon approaching the camps?

for any help.

Makhnovist · October 9th, 2011

Hello to the comminity, my warmest

and I got a big fat CTD during Namira quest - just can't reach Angua to save Forgotten. WAC is the beta v.1.0b
My modlist is

spoiler:

Rites · October 9th, 2011

DELETED

---- sorry typed up something that i later felt was just not necessary and couldn't figure out how to delete my post -------------

Psymon · October 10th, 2011

Oh well I never read what you wrote - but to be clear - I'm not trying to get anyone mad. If you want proof or more material to read over with regard to the importance of cleaning there is this: http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/in ... ning_Guide ... that is a pretty comprehensive guide.

I also recleaned and re-edited all the WAC plugins today (so I could save my work incrementally). None of them had deletions except 8th gate and Gladiator. Most had ITMs that were pretty innocuous and consisted mostly of exact duplicates of cells from Oblivion.esm or exact duplicates of records from the WAC.esm

For instance this is in most of them:

spoiler:

Is there a reason why these need to be asserted with each esp? If so I'd like to hear it. Isn't once in the WAC.esm enough?
========

As for my little project of removing the abacean camp - I got advice here: http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/t ... __18776251 but his advice is for the alpha. I soon discovered persistent references in the area and even setting them to a z axis of -8000 manually (normally edit sets them to -9000 when disabling). The damn goblin/gnoll creature remains.

I'm no CS expert by any means and reversing changes in an esp is certainly challenging for me. If I could figure out what this blue box does and how to get rid of it I'd be happy: http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54 ... legacy.jpg I think it is what is placing the last and final creature there.

October 10th, 2011

Is there a reason why these need to be asserted with each esp? If so I'd like to hear it. Isn't once in the WAC.esm enough?

I don't know Psymon. I'm no expert either when it comes to deeper editing of the esm and particularly removing things like a camp and it's NPC's. I would have thought you'd only need to make each WAC esp dependent on it's esm without references to other esps added to them, but there must be a reason which is beyond my level of knowledge. I don't know what the blue box is either.

Perhaps the only way to find out is to PM Alex and ask him why he's done things the way he has, but it might take a little while to get an answer as he's working on the next update.

I do know that WAC is ultimately meant to be it's own entity and compatibility problems with other mods is a secondary issue, but the only one who knows the hows and whys is Alex I guess.

pimpskinny · October 10th, 2011

Is there still a desire for some kind of "animal taming" script? If so, I crafted a very stable and reliable (so far) script for a spell called "command creature" for my Druid Mod Remade. I'd be happy to share it for use in WAC.

Psymon · October 11th, 2011

Success! So to do this open WAC.esp in tes4edit and find the worldspace for cell -47,-16 which is in Block -2,-1 sub block -6,-3. Right click and delete the entire cell. Actually you have to delete the adjacent cell too. No fear this is way off from the beaten path - all it removes is the goblin camp and a fence and landscaping.

then go up to the persistent section of the worldspace and find records that begin with Abacean especially subAbeceanTower FormID of ##002583 that one will spawn a goblin over and over each time you visit.

There is a door to a goblin tent with a chieftain in it - here is the catch - removing the door means that your character must not have been in that area first. So removing these camps with these doors must be done with a fresh game. Otherwise the door is stored in the save game (from what I understand).

It took me a few rounds and I double checked to make sure in the CS. The crashing I had was a mod conflict. For some reason Kuertee NPCs yield is not playing well with the goblin camps and potentially other mods. It really did kick up though in the area of the deleted goblin camp. Not sure why.

Now I can use Shezrie's Towns with WAC!!

Makhnovist · October 11th, 2011

I have a small, tiny suggestinon- please, in the next version, just a static, sitting, peacefully croaking toad. Just one toadie.

Rites · October 11th, 2011

pimpskinny wrote:Is there still a desire for some kind of "animal taming" script? If so, I crafted a very stable and reliable (so far) script for a spell called "command creature" for my Druid Mod Remade. I'd be happy to share it for use in WAC.

i have played with your scripts quite a bit in my games since i found your mods, they are quite nicely done

guntoface · October 22nd, 2011

this mod is just the most amazing mod ever wow!!!!!!!

guntoface · October 22nd, 2011

hi i really need to know if WAC beta v1 contains the realsword modules as well please reply soonhttp://waalx.com/RealSwordsForum/posting.php?mode=edit&f=12&p=7430#

guntoface · October 22nd, 2011

amazing work waalx i've done some modding for oblivion but nothing compares to your mods they are truly a gift from the heavens i really enjoy your mods

thank you so much for the quick response

October 22nd, 2011

guntoface wrote:hi i really need to know if WAC beta v1 contains the realsword modules as well please reply soonhttp://waalx.com/RealSwordsForum/posting.php?mode=edit&f=12&p=7430#

Yes they are, as well as some that aren't yet in separate Realswords releases, or at least I think so.

Just a small tip..you can edit your posts instead of making three separate ones.

And welcome to the forum.

guntoface · October 23rd, 2011

One question is there going to be another realse of WAC or is he finished?

i have a very wierd bug in the game the skingrad gaurds helmets are sideways and they have no head is there a solution to fix this?

ok

for the reply !!

October 24th, 2011

It's what everyone is waiting for. Yes, there is another version coming. Might be a good idea if you read the Announcement at the top of the forum though.

Bizzy · October 25th, 2011

Maigrets wrote:It's what everyone is waiting for. Yes, there is another version coming. Might be a good idea if you read the Announcement at the top of the forum though.

Must Waalx not release WAC before Skyrim, I think I read when Skyrim comes out, he will be already on a long travel?

Wyvrncor · October 26th, 2011

I didn't want to be one of those jack asses that goes through the hoops of joining a forum just to download the goodies and never been seen or heard from ever, so I figured I'd toss in my two cents.

I haven't played Oblivion since, well, 2007. Back then I had a poor computer that could scarcely run Vanilla, so I didn't get much out of the modding community. I always wanted to try some of the massive overhaul mods, but I knew they would utterly cripple my already badly aged computer. I eventually tossed Oblivion out in favor of Morrowind which had (at the time) a better selection of mods and was far more manageable on my rig. Switching computers several times between '07 and now and carrying my Morrowind saves over and over kept me busy for untold hours, and truth be told I'm styill not bored of it, but when I got my new rig, custom built to play Skyrim on utterly maximum settings, I thought I'd pick Oblivion back up and see what the years had done to it before 11/11/11 rolls around. I didn't bother with mods at first and instead elected to EXHAUST the vanilla game until between two characters I had literally completed every quest in the game (I checked!). That's when I began scouting for mods again, and that's what's led me here.

I downloaded MMM only a few days ago, so I haven't really gotten to run it through yet (only about 4 hours play time). I downloaded it for it's long standing reputation as THE overhaul mod (along with OOO) in hopes of changing up my gameplay experience. But still at a loss for real content, I kept searching for things to make it more interesting. I found the Elsweyr mod and thought to myself how awesome it was, how much I loved desert-scapes and Kajihts, this would be a perfect way to break up the monotony. Then I saw a patch for it, adding 'WAC' to a mod I had already pumped myself up for. The creatures looked amazing, and more than that, NATURAL.

I did a bit of digging, looked up videos and screenshots and I was very pleased with all I saw. THIS was more of what I really wanted in Oblivion. An immersive natural world, not necessarily one that adds just tons of outrageous new monstrosities in an attempt to manufacture a new level of difficulty. Now maybe I'm being a bit unfair towards M3, I haven't really gotten to encounter all of it yet, or even a significant portion, and I intend to continue experiencing it for a while. But to me WAC is shaping up to be to Oblivion what Creatures is to Morrowind, that is to say an essential expansion that remains lore-friendly and enriches your experience. I will be testing it out probably this weekend with a clean save and with M3 disabled.

It might not be much, but I hope something constructive can be gleaned from this semi-incessant rambling. Cheers to Waalx and the immense effort I can already see has been put into this mod. I can't wait to play it and drop some serious comments in about it (and maybe constructive criticisms if I should find them, and if they are welcomed.)